Thanks for the link. The source doesn’t really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
A citizen who has committed an act of treason against the state, such as by betraying the State and
escaping to another country or surrendering, defecting or giving over secrets, shall be sentenced to a
term of reform through labour of more than 5 years. In particularly grave cases, he or she shall be
sentenced to life-term of reform through labour or to the death penalty and confiscation of
property.
This doesn’t sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
제63조 (조국반역죄)
공민이 조국을 배반하고 다른 나라로 도망쳤거나 투항, 변절하였거나 비밀을 넘겨준것과 같은 조국반역행위를 한 경우에는 5년이상의 로동교화형에 처한다. 정상이 특히 무거운 경우에는 무기로동교화형 또는 사형 및 재산몰수형에 처한다.
edit
“공민” meaning “citizen,” suffixed with “이” probably marking the the noun as the subject.
“조국” meaning “motherland,” suffixed with “을” “indicates the future intention of the subject.”
“배반” means “betrayal, treachery, [or] treason,” suffixed with “하고” meaning “and” or “with.”
“다른” means “different, [or] other.”
“나라” means “country,” suffixed with “로” meaning “to, [or] toward.”
It is presumably “도망쳤거” although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with “도망” that all mean “to flee, to escape.” Presumably suffixed with “나” I think meaning “or”
“투항” meaning “surrender”
So a very literal translation might be something like “citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender” … and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
I know you didn’t ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it’s a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Surrender specifically is a combatant concept (defecting and espionage are not), non-combatants don’t surrender under military law, they migrate or seek asylum. E.g. to surrender you must be a combatant in this case an active service member.
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it’s bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you’re going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
(1) by betraying the State and escaping to another country or
(2) surrendering
(3) defecting
(4) giving over secrets
1 implies that escaping to another country is a betrayal of the state. 2 and 3 involve no violent criminal acts. 4 isn’t violent, although it is the only item on the list that might make sense.
Thanks for the link. The source doesn’t really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
From the Article 63 of this 2015 criminal law document:
This doesn’t sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
I think I found the original on https://www.unilaw.go.kr/bbs/selectBoardList.do?bbsId=BBSMSTR_000000000021&bbsSubId=008 (number 5 “형법”)
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
edit
“공민” meaning “citizen,” suffixed with “이” probably marking the the noun as the subject.
“조국” meaning “motherland,” suffixed with “을” “indicates the future intention of the subject.”
“배반” means “betrayal, treachery, [or] treason,” suffixed with “하고” meaning “and” or “with.”
“다른” means “different, [or] other.”
“나라” means “country,” suffixed with “로” meaning “to, [or] toward.”
It is presumably “도망쳤거” although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with “도망” that all mean “to flee, to escape.” Presumably suffixed with “나” I think meaning “or”
“투항” meaning “surrender”
So a very literal translation might be something like “citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender” … and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
They absolutely are. I met more than one during my many years in university.
You very clearly misread this. It’s a crime to commit treason and then escape. AND. “escaping” to another country is not a crime.
Do you have a take on 2 and 3
I know you didn’t ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it’s a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Section 34 of the Army Act 1950
and so on.
Are you suggesting that these laws only apply during active service in the military?
No that’s not at all what I said.
The examples you site as comparable to 2 are military laws.
Surrender specifically is a combatant concept (defecting and espionage are not), non-combatants don’t surrender under military law, they migrate or seek asylum. E.g. to surrender you must be a combatant in this case an active service member.
Sure, but in a country with universal conscription I’m not sure that’s exclusive to the military context.
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it’s bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you’re going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
I am totally open to looking beyond western sources. Do you have a link to a non-western translation of North Korean criminal law?
it’s in her linktree; the video says so.
did you even watch the video? because it’s starting to feel like you’re being willfully ignorant here.
Genuinely, I do not see that in her linktree. She links to this document for information about North Korea: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPJjTYGBo4QRuafFkbWTA8imbpr-QP3tD_946Yv_v3A/edit?tab=t.0
I do not see a translation of North Korean criminal law in the document.
she doing her live stream on twich right now as she does almost every day; ask her for this specific one.
https://www.twitch.tv/madelinependleton
Why do you say so? Who is this law applied to other than violent criminals?
“treason against the state, such as”:
1 implies that escaping to another country is a betrayal of the state. 2 and 3 involve no violent criminal acts. 4 isn’t violent, although it is the only item on the list that might make sense.
I replied to another comment but to reiterate
This is categorically false it states if you commit treason and then escape it is a crime. The key word being AND.