• Bricked@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    Most of the former nations can at least offset this with immigration, while the latter ones don’t

        • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          In humanity. Some people exclude others because of the order in which they apply spreads to scones, some because they disagree about whether the bread they’re eating is literally or metaphorically a man’s body, and some because they like a different sports team.

      • Fleur_@aussie.zone
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        2 months ago

        Can’t have racism if you don’t let anyone not of the majority ethnicity live in your country 🤔🤔🤔

        -Asia

      • treesquid@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Ok, but what happens when you have 500 million retirees that have to be supported by 300 million workers that are also trying to feed and house themselves and their children?

    • stenAanden@feddit.dk
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      2 months ago

      Korea actually has a lot of migration of Koreans from China and Western Asia. It is actually a pretty unique situation. The Chinese Koreans already speak Korean and their culture align perfectly with Korea.

      It’s in all ways a better situation than western countries. But no, let’s pretend that Asia is collapsing. Better than fixing issues in the west.

  • treesquid@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    .8 birth rate is going to be a huge problem for South Korea in a few years. The rest are just “oh no, capitalism’s infinite growth will be finite after all”

    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 months ago

      Lower birthrates are less an issue that people think.

      For any living being self replication can explode incredibly fast, and it’s usually the case when numbers dwindle, due more resources available per person.

      Big birth numbers are more worrying and limited resources lead to fast “too little resources for everyone” situation.

      I remember reading that part of what took Europe our of the dark ages after the black plague was that survivors thrived in an post plague environment. Also remember reading that dutch population growth actually taller because after so many people died survivors got more meat and food in general available to them, so their children grew a lot.

      So in general I’m always more worry about high birthrates than low birthrates.

      • Fleur_@aussie.zone
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        2 months ago

        The problem is we have retirement these days. And also the plague would’ve killed the old and frail leaving the young and capable behind. Whilst birthrate decline means there are less young people relative to old people. This burdens young people who have to take care of the old. A problem that didn’t exist when all of the old people died.

        • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          I suppose the worst case scenario is old people having to work because they cannot retire as soon.

          They are already saying it that new retirement ages would be in the 70s

          Not ideal, but far better than starving or being homeless because you don’t have resources for so many people.

          • velma@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            It’s either that or allow immigration or start forcing women to have more children than they want.

            It’s becoming clear which way the ruling class wants to go.

          • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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            2 months ago

            So I’m paying taxes all my life so old people don’t have to work but I might never be the beneficiary of this system myself

            • MrKoyun@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Yeah. Why not make the old people of today work to fix the mess they created? Oh wait, old people rule the world. They will just favor themselves and the rest isnt their problem. Like they have always done.

          • Fleur_@aussie.zone
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            2 months ago

            Not sure if I should be sad that I’ll never be able to retire or happy because I never have to save for retirement

          • BreakerSwitch@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            But it turns into homelessness and death for the elderly when the average retirement age is 70 and the poor are retiring even later, long past their healthspan, and still lack savings or income to get relevant care.

      • Zarobi@aussie.zone
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        2 months ago

        This was true back when the economy was vague and vibes based and people kind of just died and it was ok. But now we have pensions, and it’s considered unacceptable for people to starve to death and economies to collapse, so an upside down pyramid starts to get wobbly rather than “self-resolving”.

  • sunglocto@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    Birth rate isn’t the only thing, life expectancy and the age of the average population is too. This is a factor that everyone in this thread seems to be ignoring because it proves why there is an appropiate reaction to the bottom 3 countries.

  • PugJesus@piefed.social
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    2 months ago

    I mean, South Korea and Japan’s birth rate is a serious problem.

    The issue is less that they’re going ‘extinct’, and more that the population pyramid is gonna look real fucky going forward, and that comes with… economic issues. And potentially cultural issues.

      • PugJesus@piefed.social
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        2 months ago

        It is, but not as bad. The EU’s birth rate is higher than Japan’s, and the EU is much more immigrant-friendly - and if that makes you suck in air through your teeth, let me clarify - that’s a relative estimation. SK and Japan are… infamously hostile towards immigration.

      • AEsheron@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Japan and Korea are both further along the path, and moving more quickly. But yes, much of the EU is still on the same path, and the time to effectively mitigate the issue will come and go before most people notice. This is a problem that always has consequences out many decades from current actions, a timeline just too far along for our hunter-gatherer brains to care much about. It will take much longer to be in a real bind, but by the time it happens it is far too late to right the ship.

  • LilyVess@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    2 months ago

    That’s not birth rates, that’s fertility rate. One measures births/1k and the other is an average of births per woman on their “child bearing lapse”.

    Japan might have a fertility rate of 1.2 but they have 6 births/1000 people. Argentina with 1.5 have 11.1 births/1000

    A more relevant measure is “Natural change”, it measure people death vs people birth not counting immigration:

    India has +13 millions. Japan has -870k. China has -2 millions.

    South Korea is “only” losing -77k people per year.

    There are like 30~ countries that have negative population per year out of 197. Birthrates and fertility rate are going down each year, but not every country is losing population by it.

    Source: https://georank.org/birth-rate

  • edinbruh@feddit.it
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    2 months ago

    I highly doubt that the birthrate in Italy is 1.14

    The government and the media doesn’t stop yapping about how it’s declining and we are going extinct.

    This happens of course for economical reasons, and the government comes up with the most half assed “solutions” to ever cross human mind. Like “reduce VAT taxes on diapers and powder milk” like that is gonna make any difference.

    • velma@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      It happens because women have more choice over when and how many children to have.

      That’s why you see it still falling in countries that have good economic and social safety nets.

  • daannii@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    We need less humans.

    Otherwise we will outgrow this planet and kill it and ourselves.

      • PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 months ago

        From my reading, eco-fascists demand eugenics, genocide or anti-immigration laws. Pointing out that fewer people on the planet could help, doesn’t seem fascist to me.

        • VibeSurgeon@piefed.social
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          2 months ago

          The only people parroting the dumb malthusian bullshit at this point are eco-fascists.

          There’s a hard rule for each malthusian to follow, and there’s no room for negotiation on it. If you agree with the ideas, you must volunteer to go first.

          • Zak@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Volunteering to have fewer than two children is consistent with a belief that a reduction in the human population is desirable. It does not require suicide.

          • daannii@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            At what point did I say we need to start killing people?

            This post is about having children.

            We can all just decide to have less children and most have anyway because capitalism has made it increasingly difficult to afford children and have time to be with them.

            I myself never wanted children. I don’t have any. And I’m already at an age it would be a higher risk pregnancy.

            I have always been of the opinion that if for some reason I did change my mind about wanting children, I would become a foster parent because there are plenty of kids who need homes.

            Having a realistic perspective on population growth and it’s negative impacts is not advocating for mass killings.

            Who the fuck would think that ?

      • daannii@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        So humans constantly multiplying and growing has zero impact on the world ?

        Only capitalist overlords want constant population growth. Because that’s the only way they increase their wealth.

        By stealing it from more people. By having more desperate people who know they are easily replaceable, work for pennies.

        Exploitation is the game. And you need more people to exploit people. Boys to fight endless wars.

        Especially since their influence on the world is likely to start decreasing life span exponentially.

    • inari@piefed.zip
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      2 months ago

      That’s already happening and there seems to be nothing that can be done to stop it