wow, rare win for Chinese workers.
I think in terms of workers rights, China is rapidly coming up to the West in the 50s. There’s a massive growth in middle class as well as white collar jobs, especially in tech and engineering.
This has put pressure on society as a whole for much higher standards of living, and thus better wages and better rights. They are no longer the cheap ass labor country, that’s being exported to Africa and such.
Although the 996 culture is still insane, but I think that partly comes from the extreme competitive environment in the tech sector. There were similar stories years ago in the video game industry, and that probably hasn’t changed much.
This assumes that people can generally be replaced by AI, which is not true.
AI is an excuse to fire people, and a powerful marketing tool to make a company look better to investors, but it has not had the massive impact techbros want us to believe it has.
Shame, because like everything, it could genuinely be helpful, and instead, we’ve mostly got a bunch of applications no one asked for, and a constant bombardment of dreadful predictions that make regular people go mad.
Based China
There are so many speech restrictions and humans rights violations in China that scare the hell out of me, but then I see rulings like this and their progress on robotics and tech and I think “Well, they are doing something right…” I hope one day there is more free speech for people in China who deserve to be able to say what they want.
It’s a great ruling because companies that would normally favor efficiency and profit increases are in a better position to take these existing workers and utilize them in different ways than just have everyone fired en masse and then somehow the market will sort it out. Even under classical economic theories, governments are supposed to regulate externalities and AI displacing workers too rapidly could be considered a type of externality.
There are so many speech restrictions and humans rights violations in China that scare the hell out of me
I hear an earful about how horrible and repressive the Chinese state government is to its citizens from the outside, largely by national media talking heads and Big Data surveillance company flaks. Meanwhile, the consequences of talking shit on the Chinese internet - account suspension/deactivation, getting in trouble with your employer/school possibly with the threat of firing/expulsion, periodic investigation by state police for threats of violence, possible restrictions on business/travel because you’ve been added to a “watch list”, potential for arrest on some bullshit charge - seem to be all the same kinds of consequences periodically doled out to western citizens.
I’m told Americans have “free speech”. But then the Supreme Court lays so many caveats down that even a silly toothless joke is strictly prohibited under US laws. I’m told Chinese officials are brutal and draconian and mean-spirited, but they don’t have anything approaching our prison population. I haven’t seen evidence of any kind of mob-rule social media gang dedicated to doxing Chinese dissidents, either. So they manage to stay ahead of Canary Mission and Project Veritas in that regard.
I hope one day there is more free speech for people in China who deserve to be able to say what they want.
I want to know what that’s supposed to look like in practice. Where can I find the Free Speech that the Evil Foreign Country is supposed to one day get?
Because if the dream is an American style system of free expression… What are we pinning for, really? Chinese Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson? Uyghurs given the Palestine Action treatment? An independent Taiwan that enjoys all the diplomatic kindness we afford to our neighbors down in Haiti and Cuba?
What are we even asking for?
This is exactly right. ‘Free speech’ in the US is about to be all but eliminated in a couple of short years. They are starting with the BS age confirmation every State is slowly adding right after California to operating systems. Just watch how fast that turns into China.
I think if you look towards northern Europe instead of the US you’ll find better references and goals.
if you look towards northern Europe instead of the US
The UK has some of the most repressive speech laws on Earth. Germany isn’t far behind. Given the groundswell of fascist tendency across the Scandinavian bloc, I would not bank on them serving as a model much longer. An uptick in Muslim immigration has kicked off a tidal wave of Islamophobia, which now dominates their domestic politics.
Now that you mention it I definitely want Chinese tucker Carlson and Alex jones
I definitely want Chinese tucker Carlson and Alex jones
It’s crazy that a country with no free speech has tens of thousands of protests every year.
I saw that protests are free as long as they are against the local government. People can complain online and in-person against local authorities and demand central government step in to save them, too. But if the rethoric starts going to “central government is wrong”, then it gets supressed
Do you have a source that says that happens in today’s China? I know that Falun Gong is suppressed, but they are literally a CIA-funded group created to undermine the state.
Falun Gong have allied with foreign intelligence services, but they weren’t created by those services. Originally, the organization was allied with the Communist Party and on generally good terms. They only ran afoul of the Chinese Communists when Falun Gong leaders became embroiled in increasingly noxious financial and abuse scandals. Not unlike how the Catholic Church’s status soured across Europe and the US East Coast following the slew of child sex abuse allegations.
That’s when Falun Gong officials started fleeing to the NATO block and issuing increasingly hysterical allegations about the conduct of the CCP towards its members.
Thanks for the correction. The point remains that today’s CCP mostly limits itself to suppressing foreign actors. And why should it need to suppress its own citizens, anyways? The CCP has a 95.5% approval rate. The Chinese people are utterly committed to their socialist project, and rightly view it as a creation to be proud of.
And why should it need to suppress its own citizens, anyways?
The goal of the modern CCP is largely understood to be economic growth and steadily improving quality of life for domestic citizenry as a means of discouraging domestic upheavels (Tianamen and the Falun Gong lead movements being two classic examples).
That’s going to come with some level of suppression due to friction between what any subset of the population believes/wants and what the central government believes/wants.
But this isn’t - at it’s root - a Socialist policy. It is a Confucian policy, with Socialist Characteristics.
The CCP has a 95.5% approval rate.
I hope you’re joking.
There’s no shortage of dissatisfaction with the CCP from within the Chinese polity. There’s no shortage from within the CCP.
But what westerners don’t like to talk about is the Mass Line approach employed by Chinese political leadership, which legitimately seeks to minimize conflict in pursuit of maximum economic benefits.
You don’t have gonzo gunmen storming Beijing in hopes of winging President Xi, right now, because you don’t have a public openly at odds with the mission of the chief executive.
Not joking. Harvard even agrees with me. The Chinese people love the CCP.
I heard online that it’s illegal to be against Christianity in America, as well as it being illegal to be against fascism, or ‘anti fascist’ in the USA as you’ll be labelled a domestic terrorist. I heard in America that the cops won’t kill you if you are a white person walking at night but not if you are a black teenager. I heard in America that the government will allow your father to shoot you until you die if you disagree with him politically but ask to see his gun. I heard in America you will be killed by the government for being
homelesspoor and there’s nothing anyone will do about it.But America is where freedom is. If you live in any conditions freer than that, you are actually in a less free country than America because actually America is actually freer than any other country actually.
I heard in America that the government will allow your father to shoot you until you die if you disagree with him politically but ask to see his gun.
I think this is a great illustration of the kind of propaganda we see online wrt any “Evil Foreign Country”. In this case, it was the British Press reporting hysterically about a father hosting his daughter’s family for Thanksgiving, bragging about being a Trump supporter, bragging about owning a gun, and then accidentally shooting his daughter (literally a room away from the rest of the family) because he’s the exact kind of dipshit that doesn’t know how to handle a firearm professionally. Grand Jury threw the charges out precisely because it was so obvious that he’d been negligent rather than willful. The rest of the family confirms it. But the Brits report it like it was an Honor Killing that the local government endorsed and facilitated.
We see this kind of manipulation of events in US media - wrt China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, France, Mexico, Antifa, Immigrants, Brown People, you name it - any time national news organizations decide they need to flog a particular government or demographic group.
Hardly unique to the US. But when you’re getting the full Clockwork Orange, it’s hard to know what it feels like to be an outsider looking in.
I understand the parallel, but all you said can be confirmed or denied by several sources I have access to. I don’t have alternative sources for most of the claims about China. Could you provide them? When I read about these things, it seemed trustworthy.
Also, I’m not even american, chill. I am not chinese either, I don’t have a horse in this race. Both can burn in nuclear winter as far as I care
by several sources I have access to
Does your government limit your access to any sources?
But also all of those things are true and verifiable. That’s freedom in America baby—free to be rich and if you’re not filthy rich and just middle class or above you’re good as long as you’re white and male. Not so free for many other people.
What I mean by “have access to” is that information about china is scarce unless you are reading in chinese and talking to chinese people. I will be visiting there later this year btw and have family that goes frequently for business, but that doesn’t really show political reality
No, third world country that doesn’t give a shit and isn’t technically capable of doing anything to that scale (maybe I saw a DNS block once? And only on the ISP DNS)
There are some hardcore pro-china people on lemmy. I made a joke about disappearing someone for re-education (like what happened to Jack Ma, co-founder of Ali-baba) and people downvoted shit out of it and said my American media is lying, idk what I’m talking about, etc etc.
I’m not saying the American media is a beacon of journalistic integrity or anything but it’s telling they won’t even admit these things happen in China.
I just spent 5 minutes googling and didn’t find a single source that says Jack Ma was disappeared for re-education. Not even right-wing sources like Business Insider and Forbes.
Wait wait wait. I wanted more info on where I might have heard that “misinformation” so I Googled it and this is literally the AI summary that popped up before I could scroll what are you talking about “didn’t find a single source” lol
You mean the state didn’t report what honestly happened to him? :O I’m shocked i say, shocked. You know epstein definitely killed himself and worked alone too, our government said so. As if Forbes is gonna report on that lol good try
…You spread a conspiracy theory not even supported by mainstream US outlets and people reacted badly?!
Jack Ma was not ‘disappeared.’ He was, in fact, brought up on charges that were later dismissed due to his cooperation. This was public news. Because Jack Ma attempted to bribe members of the CPC in order to gain political support for his incredibly unpopular and stupid idea of lessening safety regulations to bring Chinese markets closer to the ‘freedom’ of the US market.
His political movement failed, his bribery attempts were exposed, and unfortunately, he was not punished for them beyond having to issue an apology. Honestly it’s a shame China didn’t actually punish him like your conspiracy theory suggests, given the amount of damage he attempted to do to the Chinese economy and integrity of the People’s congress.
It’s almost as if the speech restrictions and human rights violations are grossly exaggerated or entirely misreported by companies that are exclusively funded by the US intelligence community. . .
Don’t get me wrong, some still do exist (especially on the company side of things). Since, you know, it’s a country consisting of 1/7th of humanity; but equally it’s pretty silly to think 1/7th of humanity is too stupid to do anything about a single supposedly hyper repressive government that allegedly doesn’t let them speak against it.
You mean like how the West mashes people skulls in for holding a banner against genocide?
I bet in China you can talk about the genocide in Gaza without getting beaten, jailed, or deported.
Try saying
Tibeton a bus stop, and watch your ass getting hauled to the nearest police station in like 30 seconds.…Tibet is a province in China and is openly talked about kiddo. Tibet was, for a period of about 40 years, under a brutal monarchy that had institutionalized child sex slavery. The Dalai Lama is a child sex advocate.
Tibet then did a civil war around the time of China’s revolution, where the main party of the rebellion which I don’t care to look up the name of because Tibetan is mostly nonsense words to me, requested help from the newly freed China. China obliged, with the caveat of Tibet returning to China instead of continuing on as an independent country. Which was greatly preferred during war time at least because, you know, they were spending all their military resources fighting the UK and US backed Tibetan child sex slave government.
After the war, like all provinces Tibet was poor, poorly integrated with the rest of China, and had little access to outside resources… until about the 1990s. Like the rest of China. Now Tibetan culture and language is mandatory for schools in Tibet (like Uyghur in Xinjiang and Mongolian in Inner Mongolia, also there’s that weird muslim group in inner mongolia that actually has their own culture and language requirements in schools that I forget. And I mean weird as in, why did they become muslim that far north east, not that they’re weird for being Muslim.) and Tibet, like Xinjiang, is seeing a golden age of modernization and resources being poured into it.
Because China realized after the East Tukistan terror attacks from Turkey and the US that you can’t have home grown terrorism or dissidence if you just, give people the resources they need to live well and thrive.
Perhaps. And if not that, I’m sure there are other forbidden topics there.
Just like in the West.
The difference is that the West pretends to care about free speech and even uses it as an excuse to bomb/sanction/invade other countries.
Good
Why? This will hold back automation dramatically
Because at this point the only ones profiting from automation are the capitalists.
China is not a capitalist country?
I believe they mean the capital owners benefit from automation but the workers do not.
Yes and it’s not like there a no privately owned companies in China.
It just means they have to write “mistakes” or “performance issues” on the paperwork instead of “replaced by robots”
You massively underestimate the efficiency of Chinese social policies.
996 is not legal either and yet many companies did that. I’m sure many still do, it’s a hypercapitalist country just like the US.
China has better worker’s policies than America.
This one policy is better in this extremely superficial description.
Neither country has workers rights on par with Europe for example.
Neither country has workers rights on par with Europe for example.
For now. Now watch us fuck it all up.
Valid.
Europe has executed CEO’s for violating their worker’s human rights?
Murdering people isn’t the flex you think it is.
Murder is when crimes against humanity are prosecuted. You’re so smart.
Hey, if you cool with human rights violations and state sanctioned murder that is on you.
I’m not okay with human rights violations, which is why I support jury trial enabled capital punishment for those committing human rights abuses, like every CEO China has executed.
Capital punishment is a human rights violation silly.
If those policies aren’t enforced it hardly matters. 996 is technically illegal there but last I checked some of the richest companies in China were still practicing it.
Happy to be shown evidence to the contrary, but I don’t think the plight of Chinese workers is better than Americans, and certainly not Europeans.
Did you even hear about America’s Apple’s Foxconn factory in China where the factory has nets on the windows to stop the frequent ‘inconvenient’ problem of cheap labor workers attempts of window jump suicides, for example? Co-operative structure (worker-owned) companies have more likelihood to have more human policies to, uh, themselves, than ponzi scheme corporations. Despite a fancy socialist (‘communist’) sounding title of government structure, Russia and China both took International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans, with their conditions of worker rights suffocation policies and market concentration monopolization policies. America’s and China’s feudalist monopolist billionaires have a lot more proximity of ideology than either of their propaganda machines has acknowledged so far.
Yeah, I know about all of that, and they still have a better working environment than Americans.
As China has prospered, they have managed to reduce most poverty in their nation. As we have prospered under MAGA, Americans’ quality of life is decreasing, and the slide is increasing. China is going the right way, we are definitely going the wrong way.
I’m not saying that China doesn’t have issues, but they are still committed to the betterment of their country’s future, while American leaders are ONLY concerned with exploiting our country and it’s people to the absolute maximum degree. They don’t want to leave one illegal penny on the table.
I don’t want to be China, but I don’t want to be MAGAMERICA either.
Typical Chinese factory workers have 10-12 hour shifts 6 days a week. Many workers literally live at the factory. Sounds way better than the US or Europe.
They’re a worker’s republic, of course they do.
I would kill to live in a country like China that optimizes its economy for use value over exchange value.
Honey, I used to live there, and I hate to burst your bubble, but there’s a huge HUGE difference between what China says and does.
As someone currently living there, I don’t believe you.
I’ve heard from many other Chinese people who say the opposite, so I’m gonna go ahead and press X to doubt.
Edit: I also don’t really care what someone with enough resources to emigrate has to say. I’m more concerned with ordinary workers, who have a 90%+ approval rating of the CCP.
What do the rural poor in China think of their new billionaire class and their ever increasing wealth gap?
They probably hate it, but are glad that they have the CCP to prevent them from gaining political power as well as economic power.
The CCP are the wealthy people in control. Those are some good mental gymnastics.
I agree with everything you posted except I have to also press X to doubt on your claim of 90%+ approval ratings amongst ordinary workers. You can’t get 90 percent of people to agree on anything else in the world, except the CCP? It just doesn’t compute as a real number for me I guess. But I’d love to be proven wrong.
Here’s an article from the Harvard Gazette talking about the surveys. The approval rating was 95.5% and notably, Harvard did not dispute the accuracy of the findings or have issue with the methodology of the survey.
Also, don’t patronize me. It’s rude.
Patronizing and completely unsubstantiated!
Tankies call you out for
patronizingwhen literally every single comment ever by tankies on Lemmy are patronizing and calling out people for “being brainwashed capitalistic libs”. Yikes.“Everyone I disagree with is a tankie.”
If CCP and PLA run China experiences high unemployment, the country will implode. The court ruling is one thing, but what will really occur will be the complete opposite. Free West Taiwan!
Just to save your eyes from being assaulted (had to turn off styling):
I’m not going to hand my money to that paywall on such an overstimulating website riddled with AI.
China (its court, anyways) is a civil law jurisdiction (i.e. precedent doesn’t exist too much) so I’m curious what law’s letter is being applied here.
Firefox -> Reading mode gets past the paywall.
thanks! weird that that does it but not blocking JS
AI generated, for reference only
uhhhh
The reader mode text also doesn’t seem to match the article text. I think this is on Caixing’s side and not Firefox’s side though, since “for reference only” (a literal translation of China-specific legal boilerplate) is a common Chinglishism.
- Zhou, in a quality-assurance role verifying AI-generated sentences, faced reassignment and a salary cut from 25,000 yuan ($3,655) to 15,000 yuan due to AI impacts; rejecting it led to dismissal.[para. 4]
that’s ironic
- The Yuhang court ruled that AI cost savings do not qualify as legal termination grounds like business closure or poor performance, nor as an “objective major change” making contracts impossible, deeming the low-pay offer unreasonable and the firing illegal with compensation ordered.[para. 7][para. 8]
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The case turned on whether AI job elimination counts as an “objective major change” under Labor Contract Law.[para. 19]
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Beijing guidelines define such changes as uncontrollable, unpredictable events like disasters or policies causing ruin, not business decisions.[para. 20]
Step 1: give unrealistic KPI, cited performance increase due to AI Step 2: put employee into PIP Step 3: fire employee due to performance Step 4: do stock buyback because you have extra budget from firing employees
I’m not sure about step 4. I mean, China is pretty strict with those kinds of things.
Step 5: hire employee back as part of expansion plan and because AI did it poorly.
Hire employees back as contractors instead, because those people are desperate.
How the hell does an article that we can’t even read get so many upvotes.
Stuff like this really shakes my belief in the voting system.
Just get rid of votes and display the social credit score instead.
If you’re on Firefox, just enable reading mode.
Headline goes brrrrrr… I guess?
My take as well.
Was recently “assaulted” by a load of China-stans. So I assume this is similar pro-china (neutral about it) or at least anti-US (positive about that) community upvoting it.Sometimes and at certain areas here I wondered if I stumbled into r/sino.
Because hate for AI is so blind that you can post anything and people will immediately fall for it.
Also any win or loss for China gets upvoted to oblivion by the tankies or sinophobes respectively.
It’s one of those subscription blocks you can get around by selecting reading mode in Firefox.
I’m not sure if it works for other browsers but I was able to read the article.
People only read the title, not the article
You can’t require reading the article before someone vote/comment, but what if communities could enable “ponder voting” where users can only vote 30 seconds after viewing the post? This would prevent people from scrolling by from voting, but people who at least slightly skim the article first won’t be affected.
Probably not viably due to it having to be supported by all platforms, but just a thought.
EDIT: It could work by returning a JWT with a post ID and time when fetching the post and having the vote endpoint support providing it. Although, I can also see it being a bit annoying and being trivially bypassed by adding some code to the client.
The great leap sideways.
Is this a China propaganda site? Sure reads like it is.