• terabyterex@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      This is the current web with its social media like life. Say something, be outraged.

      But let’s be honest. We really have no idea what to the true story is. There are so many ways to spin a story. Probably both sides fucked up.

      The one thing we know is fucked up, is that anthropic is acting like a startup. If they want to work with businesses they need a dedicated support team.

      I dont know if its because its bern a long day and i am exhauseted but i am tired of being outraged.

    • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.org
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      7 hours ago

      This makes me so happy about my employer. I’m sysadmin for a newspaper.
      We had an all-company test run 2 weeks ago to answer the question “What if we’re hacked?”

      Turns out we’re able to produce a printed and online newspaper within a work day if NONE of our normal IT systems (hardware, software, e-mail, network) are accessible.
      Everything we need has a redundancy that’s kept completely physically separated from the network until the day it’s needed.

    • Telorand@reddthat.com
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      10 hours ago

      My company is pivoting hard to Claude for everything, and besides the fact that it’s irritating as fuck to use, it has me worried about shenanigans like in this article. For almost 50 years, they’ve had a “no reliance upon 3rd party platforms for core functions,” but since they hired an AI apologist to the C-suite, all that has gone out the window in a matter of months.

      Got me thinking I should warm up my resume…

      • criss_cross@lemmy.world
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        15 minutes ago

        My company is doing the exact same thing.

        Why everyone is so eager to add an expensive middleman into their workflow is beyond me.

      • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        Got me thinking I should warm up my resume…

        Don’t wait, start now. The job market is a nightmare and finding one that isn’t being consumed by incompetent C-level AI FOMO is getting harder every day. I work on life-saving medical equipment and AI is being pushed on us for things that could literally kill people if not done correctly. Why would anyone spend 30 minutes using AI and risking people’s lives when I can just write it myself in 5 or 10? Madness. Complete, society-scale madness. The people pushing AI have no fucking idea what they are doing or how engineering works. People are going to die.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        If you’re being forced to use it, just try to convince them to make whatever workflows you use be AI agnostic, and not required to still function.

        As long as you do that, you won’t run into this.

        • Telorand@reddthat.com
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          6 hours ago

          That’s essentially what I’m doing right now, and thus far, they still want workers who understand the code. However, my manager has already said that his boss had it compose a few scripts, and he thought he could therefore replace an entire workflow.

          Thankfully, my manager talked him down and pointed out that it still got several nontrivial things wrong and that taking humans out is dangerous when it comes time to push to production.

          But it’s concerning to see that the higher ups don’t understand what it is and what its limitations are.

          • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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            6 hours ago

            his boss had it compose a few scripts, and he thought he could therefore replace an entire workflow.

            yikes! How long until his boss is like, you’re getting in the way of my plans and are wrong, fires that boss for a yes man, and then boom.

    • audaxdreik@pawb.social
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      13 hours ago

      Your point is well-taken, but this is also exactly why AI reliance is dangerous. Anyone who sees this should realize the precarity of relying on products that can just be locked away from you.

      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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        14 minutes ago

        I don’t know why any company with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on commercial LLM APIs wouldn’t just build and self-host their own LLM fine-tuned on data relevant to their work…

      • Jrockwar@feddit.uk
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        9 hours ago

        Like Gmail? Google drive? Slack?

        I’m not defending AI, but I can come up with >10 products that would absolutely cripple the company I work at if the provider suddenly says “Soz, terms of service violation”.

        Vendor reliance is dangerous. That doesn’t just apply to AI. If the company in OP’s message had both Claude and Gemini they’d been okay, so the problem isn’t with AI explicitly - the problem is with reliance on services that are critical for workflows, and providers being able to change their mind at a moment’s notice.

        In any case, leaving aside where the problem is, the idea that 60 employees can’t use Natural Intelligence to do their jobs means there’s something really wrong with that company…

        • FauxLiving@lemmy.world
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          8 hours ago

          Vendor reliance is dangerous.

          1000% this.

          It’s a Faustian bargain, a company gives up all of their internal IT staff and hardware and becomes completely dependent on a vendor for critical business processes. It’s like the opposite of insurance, they’re saving some money by risking a total loss of their ability to do business should the vendor pull support.

      • plyth@feddit.org
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        12 hours ago

        Windows 11, Onedrive, Intel Management Engine, Google accounts, …

      • Shizzymcjizzles@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        12 hours ago

        It’s not that they can’t be productive. Right now at least, what AI does is amplify how much work you can do. One of my friends codes for a big company that uses state of the art Claude models and he says that the system does 80-90% of the coding grunt work and the job is more of an editor and making sure everything is correctly annotated so that humans can understand what’s happening in the code in the future. This means that work that might have taken months he can complete in a week or two.

        • RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works
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          12 hours ago

          This approach to coding is exactly what creates the problem. They will find out the hard way if they can continue to be productive when something breaks and AI is not available for whatever reason. Does anyone know how to fix it? Is the documentation sufficient to understand what the AI did?

          • Shizzymcjizzles@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            11 hours ago

            My friend said early AI iterations were really bad at being opaque and that even now if you’re having it design the core architecture you’re going to have the problems you mentioned. But his job has basically changed to being focused mostly on being that architect. Using the metaphor of constructing a building. He used to have to do a lot of manual labor too, not just be an architect. Now he just has to tell the AI system what to build AND how. But the majority of the actual “construction” work is done by the AI system.

            • ramble81@lemmy.zip
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              10 hours ago

              To continue with the analogy though, how many architects create things that an engineer takes one look at and laughs at because it’s structurally impossible (hint: a lot). Knowing the deep parts of the code and how it works becomes even more invaluable otherwise you risk Chinese building practices (quick, looks good, falls apart quickly).

              • Shizzymcjizzles@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                8 hours ago

                My friend is a full stack programmer with over 15 years experience with one of the largest financial institutions. So he can handle what you’re talking about no problem. But what IS a huge problem is that the reason he has the requisite knowledge now is because he spent years learning best practices by doing the grunt work that’s going to disappear. So in a few years they might no longer have people with the skills to do things right and then what you’re describing will absolutely happen and build quality will go to hell. The assumption from big tech is by then the models will have improved enough it won’t matter by then.

                • ramble81@lemmy.zip
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                  8 hours ago

                  That’s a hell of an assumption. Since we’re whipping out credentials, I’ve been in IT almost 30 years and I can tell you it’s not going to work like that.

                  • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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                    7 hours ago

                    Since we’re whipping out credentials, I’ve been in IT almost 30 years and I can tell you it’s not going to work like that.

                    I’m not the person you were replying to but I’ve also been in tech since 1996 and lots of things have worked just like that. All successful technology starts off barely functional and improves over time until nearly all members of it’s intended audience can successfully use it.

                    As an example in 1996 setting up a router was a specialty task that required training, by 2016 any moron could buy one off the shelf and have it running in an hour. As another example basic HTML was a specialty skill in 1996 but by 2003 you could do it with Microsoft Word. Smartphones are another example, they went from barely functional Windows Mobile and Blackberry devices which required ridiculous amounts of back end skill to deliver email to iPhones and Androids that any numskull can use for nearly anything at all.

                    My point is this; too many people are stuck on the “What use is a newborn baby?” question without realizing that the infant is growing-up at blinding speed. It’s also the first technology to carry the promise, real or not, of self-improvement when it reaches sufficient maturity. Assuming that happens all further improvement will be increasingly automatic and happen even faster.

                    AI isn’t going away and it’s only going to get better as time goes on.

                  • FauxLiving@lemmy.world
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                    8 hours ago

                    I can see, in programming, how the current AI trend is displacing a lot of junior programmers who will not be senior programmers in 10 years due to the inability to obtain experience.

                    AI hasn’t come for DevOps or SysAdmins jobs either, but it’s ‘good enough’ to do help-desk/tier 1-type tasks. That limits the job pool for new IT workers and will create a future shortage of experienced workers.

                    I’m not worried about MY job, I’ve already accumulated the experience. It’s the new guys who are trying to get into support positions, where they are glorified knowledge base/Google searchers, who are having the hard time because AI CAN do search and summarization/RAG pretty effectively.

              • benjirenji@slrpnk.net
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                10 hours ago

                At least in my experience these models are pretty good now to write code based on best practices. If you ask for impractical things they will start doing ugly shortcuts or workarounds. A good eye catches these and you either rerun with a refined prompt, fix your own design or just keep telling it how you want to have it fixed.

                You still gotta know how good code looks like to write it, but the models can help a lot.

                • Shizzymcjizzles@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  8 hours ago

                  This is what I’m hearing too. One thing my friend did mention was that without a nearly unlimited amount of tokens he’d run out really quickly.

                • RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 hours ago

                  I don’t doubt that it is possible to create good code when focusing on programming best practices etc. and taking the time to check the AI output thoroughly. Time however is a luxury most of the devs in those companies don’t have, because they are expected to have a 10x code output. And thats why the shit hits the fan. Bad code gets reviewed under pressure, reviewers burn out or bore out and the codebase deteriorates over time.

                  • benjirenji@slrpnk.net
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                    7 hours ago

                    But we have to identify this as what it is: an internal policy failure where they abandon proven processes to maintain code quality.

                    I guess I’m lucky my managers have not put that pressure on me yet. I do however see developers getting sloppy and lazier so the reviews actually do take more effort and AI rarely catches all problems with a change.

    • Carnelian@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      Regardless of the fact that work has ground to a halt the CEO will continue to claim productivity has never been higher since implementing AI

    • Jmdatcs@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      Fuck AI and all, but to be faaaiiiiir, if you take away most people’s computers they would be far less efficient than someone that did the same job without one 50 years ago.

      In the profession I recently retired from, if they suddenly went back 50 years in tech the global economy would crash, and even a 20-30 year regression in tech would seriously fuck things up until people adjusted. And even then they wouldn’t be able to reach the same levels of efficiency.

      • partofthevoice@lemmy.zip
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        5 hours ago

        Yeah, I think this is normal. You can probably say the exact same sentence for any year to have occurred in the last several hundred years. Probably all the way back to whenever we transitioned to specialization for production scaling. You know, when someone figured out you can make more clocks per day if you have a nut producer, a spring producer, a frame producer, …

    • greenbit@lemmy.zip
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      11 hours ago

      Eh consider it like a power outage. These corporations don’t deserve more than automated slop. If that system is down, it’s an earned break

    • wakko@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      Funny how nobody seems to use this argument every time there’s a problem with the NYC subway.

      • Telorand@reddthat.com
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        10 hours ago

        Because there’s alternatives. You don’t have to use the subway if it breaks down, and people have enough brains to take a taxi or walk instead.

        This is 60 people going, “Fuck, the subway is down. Guess I can’t travel anywhere, now.”

      • Zak@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        Based on a quick web search, staff can only remove people temporarily for rule violations; it takes a court order to get a long-term ban from the NYC subway.

        • wakko@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          The point is, literally nobody reacts to subway malfunctions with, “and we call this progress???” as if returning to previous modes of transport is somehow the right answer to problems with far less drastic solutions than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

          LLMs are a new technology that people are still figuring out how to use effectively. Part of that process is becoming reliant upon “the new way of doing things” to prove that one can rely on it. Clearly, there’s more work to be done. (My dayjob includes working on this same reliability problem.)

          One can argue the wisdom of being an early adopter in any new technology. Some thirty years ago, I was told I was insane for going all-in on Linux. The times change. The sanctimoniousness of the peanut gallery hasn’t. The lunatics betting the farm on all that wacky open source stuff three decades ago turned out to have been largely right, despite the numerous failed ventures involved in getting to here.

          This is just how the new technology cycle works. With every new tech, a whole lot of people discover all of the ways it doesn’t work before somebody figures out the way to make it work more reliably than any alternative.

    • ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
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      10 hours ago

      Disliking AI is fine and good. But that is a really dumb argument.

      “60 employees who can’t be productive without the internet? And this is progress?”

      “60 employees who can’t be productive without computers? And this is progress?”

      “60 scribes who can’t be productive without clay tablets? And this is progress?”

      Etc.

      Edit: LLMs/AI are going to change some things. They are going to make (shitty) coding and various automations much more accessible. They are probably not a revolutionary technology like computers/internet, but that they could be a core part of some people’s workflow is absolutely not unthinkable. It has been shown that there have not, so far, been major boons to productivity on the whole, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have some use cases.

      • mabeledo@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        AI is a non essential tool. Anything that a chatbot produces, can and should be achievable by a human with access to the same sources of information. Anyone hired to do a specialist job, who cannot perform without access to AI, should be summarily fired because their output would be indistinguishable from that of their LLM of choice.

        In contrast, the Internet (as massive interconnected network), computers, even books, enable humans to deal with information in ways impossible to achieve without them, and help augment us. Reading feeds your brain. Computers are a window to creativity. AI does nothing of the sort, in fact I believe it does the opposite, pushing us to outsource our thinking processes while making us feel smart, undeservedly.

      • XLE@piefed.social
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        12 hours ago

        One is a deterministic machine on your desk, that you own, to do stuff at your desk.

        The other is a nondeterministic thing somewhere else, that you don’t own, to do stuff at your desk.

        • ripcord@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          That’s really an argument against all cloud services, and not LLMs. Although most people do LLMs in the cloud.

          And I absolutely agree with the argument. It’s insane to me how much companies will put in someone else’s hands.

          • XLE@piefed.social
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            2 hours ago

            It is an argument against the false comparison I was responding to, no more. Although the fact AI companies can’t seem to create a profitable or finished product even with subsidies, points to other issues I have not addressed

              • XLE@piefed.social
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                10 hours ago

                I was talking about a false dichotomy (before the person I replied to edited their comment to save face)

                what are you talking about

                • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world
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                  10 hours ago

                  You people are like flat earthers with this AI hatred.

                  It’s genuinely fascinating and useful. You’re allowed to hate the companies and evil behind it, but the kid in me is still enthralled by this technology.

                  It’s just getting weird at this point.

                  • BygoneNeutrino@lemmy.world
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                    7 hours ago

                    I’m pretty sure the reason tech employees hate it so much is because it’s an existential threat to their profession. If it wasn’t, they wouldn’t spend so much time talking about it.

      • atrielienz@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        In the military we have a maintenance tracking system. It’s electronic. We literally bdo drills for if it goes down and we have to resort to paper backups. And there are paper backups.

        Without a computer I could still manage an entire flight line worth of planes, and everything they need. Maintenance, fueling, sorties, etc. What you’re telling me is that this company and lots of companies do not have a contingency for if there is a system failure or other outage.

        That seems acceptable? Why? Short of a power outage (and probably not even then unless we can’t Jerryrig a lighting solution) we can do all the jobs required with hand tools. It’s crazy to think that people don’t think this should be a thing.

        • General_Effort@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Yeah, ok. But the military is explicitly supposed to keep functioning when the backend gets nuked literally. Who wants to pay for that kind of redundancy just so that some people can watch Netflix while they’re dying of radiation poisoning?

          • atrielienz@lemmy.world
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            54 minutes ago

            Hopefully companies relying on other companies like crowdstrike.

            What are we paying for if not to have things work and have backups? I have so many questions about the companies you give your money to and what you think you’re getting in return?

            Like. I feel like there’s a lot of jobs where email could fail/crash and work could still be done. The whole company shouldn’t just shut down because the AI is down. It shouldn’t shut down because email is down. That’s not just poor planning it’s really poor business practice.

            What did they do before the AI? Why (when considering how temperamental LLMs can be) would anyone trust it to such an extent that you’re dead in the water if it fails?

      • expr@piefed.social
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        12 hours ago

        Except, unlike computers and the internet, AI is not essential, unless your whole business revolves around it (in which case, good riddance).

        • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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          3 hours ago

          Uhhhh computers and Internet aren’t essential either. But they did speed up a lot of things and make new things possible.

          There’s nothing I use AI for that I couldn’t do myself, but AI can do most things faster and a few things better than me (LLMs that is. Image generators do all their things better than me because I can’t art, but I don’t use them at all).

      • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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        12 hours ago

        If the Internet is down for a period of time at the office, I would expect that my dev team is able to continue working (assuming they’re not exclusively hitting a third party API). At least for a few hours, if not days. It might not be the same cadence, but I’m not about to send them home.

        Computers are a tool; AI is an outsourcing. It’s the difference between a carpentry team not having saws, hammers, etc. and having the carpentry team unable to do work if Jose (the outsourced carpenter) doesn’t come in.