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Many of the liberals below clearly don’t know any small business owners. Petty tyrants can be just as personally vicious as larger capitalists, and both live via theft of labor time.
Many of them also use their children / family as unpaid workers, who they would be happy to throw out of a home for not fulfilling their duties.
Petty tyrants can be just as personally vicious as larger capitalists, and both live via theft of labor time.
if i had a dollar for every time a small business owner took offense because my autism made them feel like i was an asshole to them and then fired me while trying to take the software that i developed for them, it would be able to buy myself a couple beers and think about how i could avoid them. :p
The first small business owner I worked for got busted for human trafficking because one of his slaves died on the job. He was able to somehow maintain not only his business but also was able to go free without any consequences. I got out of there very quickly. From then on I internally scream whenever people start worshiping small businesses.
My city allows small business owners to have lower minimum wages and less benefits offered than big corporations.
There are non fascist small business owners, right? Why does the meme specifically say fascist small business owners?
Western hyper individualism is brain poison.
The petite bourgeoisie is the most reactionary class that drives fascism. As capitalism decays, small business owners are the most threatened into becoming proletarian, so they adopt the most reactionary positions advocating for open terror against the working classes.
Because OP is out of touch with reality.
Post a meme about small businesses
Fine I’ll support big businesses
Fucking liberals can’t even imagine a world where the workers seize the means of production lol
Let the small businesses follow the rules of their dearest ‘freemarket’. Why should I interfere in the proletarianization of the petite bourgeoisie?
Small business owners are the absolute worst. I worked for a few in my youth and they feel so entitled to exploit labour and get legit mad when they can’t?
I took one guy to the labour board for unpaid wages, not even run-of-the-mill exploitation, and I thought he was going to get violent in the mediation 😬
I had one get a $12M bonus for the three stores they owned while telling me they can’t afford a raise or full time because things are tight for everyone
Then left the check on the desk after doing an e-deposit or whatever - then leaving for the day at 12:30
Small businesses, at least in my area have the owners themselves work. So yeah means of production are owned by workers.
For the love of god read capital
For the love of god see people around you
You are completely uninformed and don’t understand capitalism. I see the people around me, this is why I am a communist. For the love of god grow up and stop making excuses. Those sole proprietorships are still part of a larger structural problem that is literally destroying the world. Read a damn book.
How does reading a book change the material reality we are living in alleged comrade? The failure of 21st century Marxism is forgetting the material world it was designed to address in favor of masterbatory academic circlejerks
No? Marxism is going very strong globally in the 21st century, the PRC rising so rapidly is one of the defining characteristics of this century. Western Marxism has many problems, but it’s not because people correctly identify the petite bourgeoisie as such, and not as proletarian.
My god you people will literally enable fascism just so you don’t have to pick up a damn book
The failure of 21st century Marxism is forgetting the material world it was designed to address
👀ing @ China and wondering if those hundreds of millions of “21st century Marxists” Communist Party members forgot to address the material world while becoming a superpower and rapidly outpacing the world hegemon empire economically.
(Though for the record, I agree that reading theory is only half of the necessary equation needed for someone to overcome their liberalism.)
Because reading a fucking book would tell that person why a small business owner, even a self proprietorship, participates in a system designed to exploit all the workers that produce the products they are selling. You aren’t going to sell me on anti-intellectualism you fucking American idiot.
^ Person saying workers should own means of production when they actually own means of production
You think people who run their own stores produce everything they sell also? Don’t bother answering I am putting you on the block list because I am fully convinced nothing that is posted by your account will ever be worth reading.
Dont engage. OP just finished their first book and feels enlightened so anyone disagreeing with their newly acquired knowledge is a fool.
It’s so crazy how wide this cancer has spread lol. It’s like a rise of idealism mixed with an unhealthy obsession with Trotsky and the idea of the global proletariat which is clearly a losing position as national identity and nationalism is a requirement for the success of a nation and these people are anti nationalism contrary to actually existing socialist states like China which are very anti immigration pro nationalism and share a common ethnic identity
But they are living off of the value produced by their workers, assuming it’s not just literally the owner working. Also, most small business owners I’ve worked really scummy and shady. A lot of people go into business because they are literally unemployable. Personality disorder, criminal past etc. You are much more likely to be a victim of wage theft.
I know what you mean, but lots of folks with personality disorders are fine, and most people with personality disorders are disproportionately more likely to be victims of abuse than abusers themselves. Similarly with crimes, stuff like stealing food for the value of ten bucks can put you in jail in some places, not to mention the criminalization of homelessness and the selective enforcement that targets racialized people more. I do agree that there’s lots of business people who are terrible but I don’t agree on the reasons.
There are a lot of shops here wifh literally the owner working(and in some cases their family also do work there).
And don’t judge people with only this much info. You are attributing personality disorders to people you don’t even know
A lot of people go into business because they are literally unemployable.
Man, then who are supposed to employ them? Id you are employed, then it must be some business, except for government jobs(which only take a handful of people)
Where do you propose we shop?
Wherever, we are not going to consume our way to a better future.
Agree to disagree then
Unsuccessful capitalists are still capitalists and still need to be smashed. 🏴
And they’re absolutely the worst. Not only are they constantly in a panicked state at the looming threat of being thrown back into the labor pool, all the tepid labor reforms the big companies sort of have to abide by don’t apply to them.
There is a “cost of living” small grocer in town that has boogied up my old neighborhood. I’m glad if the workers are at least earning more money, but it’s the same problem as a “good king” — good or bad, it’s not like you have any real democratic control over your own workplace.
Where are we on co-ops anyway?
Coops are fine. They aren’t a challenge to capital, and by communism will be phased out in favor of full collectivization, but for people trying to make things better for themselves it’s one of the better methods of organization within capitalism.
I don’t personally think direct workplace democracy is the important factor, but instead that the class in power is the working class, and that society in general is comprehensively democratic. Workplace democracy is cool but the lack of it isn’t the worst of capitalism.
They cost money to open and run. Best case is a group of somewhat wealthy friends pool their money to start a co-op. Idk how lending policies are towards worker co-ops.
I worked in a metal fab shop and ppl talked about unionizing. I brought up a co-op or other employee owned models but they said 1 machine alone can easily be $500,000+ for a shitty used one and none of us could get that kind of money.
Co-ops are generally good and worth supporting. They are undeniably a better alternative within capitalism to the standard business ownership model and they can be great for raising worker’s class consciousness. That said, the ones you might see in the imperial core or any capitalist nation are not a threat to capitalism itself (if they were, they wouldn’t be allowed to exist). This is in part because they are always going to be fighting an uphill battle in a competitive labor market where all other businesses get to exploit their labor, forcing co-ops to operate at a disadvantage. Even as they are at a disadvantage especially compared to large corporations whose scale alone give them a massive advantage over all small businesses, co-ops in the imperial core still benefit from the primary contradiction of our age which is imperialism, the extraction of super-profits from exploited nations. Which means you will still have co-ops that are reactionary when it comes to dismantling capitalist hegemony. In other words, the workers of a co-op may jointly own their own business and the portion of the means of production within the purview of that business, but ultimately the means of production include all the economic inputs from the rest of the world, like the minerals that co-op must buy from mines in exploited countries or the basic food ingredients grown on land in the global south. This puts the material interests of even the most egalitarian first world co-ops at odds with communism. It has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread that small business owners occupy a spot in the social hierarchy where they are squeezed from both above and below in terms of their material interests, well this is also true of co-ops but perhaps doubly so.
In short, yes worker co-ops are good, and if you can support them over other businesses it’s a good idea to do so. If you are fortunate enough to work in one, great. But don’t expect them to have more revolutionary potential than workers unionizing. You will be disappointed if you think that worker co-ops are the vehicle towards socialism that some of their biggest proponents often like to say they are.
The irony is that the character you’re portraying yourself as is a fascist.
What lack of theory does to a mfer
I agree with OP and frankly if you think liberals don’t support fascist small business owners, or worse you also support them, then I sure hope you don’t think of yourself as a leftist. But I have to admit I did raise an eyebrow at the choice of character used to express the sentiment.
I have no idea who they are except from memes. I took this meme from elsewhere. I don’t watch American media.
Yeah that’s fine, but just so you know, that character’s name is Homelander and he is the literal American-Nazi imagined ubermensch, the blond haired blue eyed evil superman who manifests whatever he wills through might-makes-right violence. He is the embodiment and epitome of U.S. fascism. The expression on his face in the image you used really does capture the emotion you were going for, without a doubt. It’s just that anyone who knows the character, seeing a pic of him representing a leftist’s thought, may well squint at it with a little suspicion or confusion.
American-Nazi
You repeat yourself here
Meh, I think it’s fair to make a distinction between the classic German ones and the USians, but I get what you’re saying.
Why though? The Americans are the petite bourgeois settler sons and daughters of Britain and Germany who came to what is now the USA for lebensraum and genocided millions of people in the process. They supported Nazi Germany at first who were inspired by US racial apartheid and then swooped in to rescue the Nazi’s from the Soviets at the last minute to protect the vast majority high ranking officials and technocrats from prosecution in Nuremburg. Then with operation paperclip inserted them into their own government to participate and in some case run high profile programs like NASA, the USAF and NATO. This isn’t a conspiracy theory, this is a well documented thing that happened and was revealed by FOIA.
Then over the next few decades instituted programs to strip away the liberal and socialist tendencies of the US empire to bring fascism home including Reichstag like tactics with 9/11. In every way the Bush’s and Trump’s of the world are the direct decedents of the 40s fascists and in a way, the 40s fascists represented the Americanization of Europe.
The USA is the most evil place on earth with the most evil people to ever exist. Death to America.
Of course it is a fascist, it is an USAmerican after all
I shop at a small grocer run by good people who don’t exploit their workers. Where should I shop otherwise?
All businesses exploit their workers labor and keep the surplus value. If they didn’t exploit their workers it would be a workers cooperative.
J/W do you get excited to shop at Walmart, or is your problem that people are happier shopping somewhere else? I can’t figure out the point. Do you think supporting small business is a left aligned practice and you just need to let people know how much hate you have available? Or do you just lack the perspective to make meaningful content from your basement? It’s ok to be a lurker if you don’t have anything important to say.
Do you think supporting small business is a left aligned practice and you just need to let people know how much hate you have available?
Ahh yes, supporting le petit bourgeoisie and their dreams to become a small business tyrant … Totally a central tenet of socialist theory.
The problem with small business owners is that they overwhelmingly support the conservative machine because the actual upper class throw them bones to use them as a political buffer between themselves and the working class.
The simple fact is that most small businesses are dependent on tax breaks and low minimum wages to stay in business, and are often worse and more dangerous places to be employed than larger corporations.
are often worse and more dangerous places to be employed than larger corporations.
legit
you piss off your boss at a big corp and lose them a bunch of money, you get fired
you piss off your boss at a mom and pop and lose them a bunch of money, they turn up at your houseThat last part reminded me of the common response from libs when Biden wanted to take 6 years to raise minimum wage to a pitiful $15/hr was “But doing it immediately would hurt small businesses!!! We have to do it slowly and tell people to suck it up even though it still won’t be enough by the time the $15 gets here!!!”
Do you think supporting small business is a left aligned practice and you just need to let people know how much hate you have available?
Completely incoherent. The first and second halves of the sentence seem to have nothing to do with each other. You’re asking if someone who described small business owners as fascist thinks supporting them is leftist?
A small bourgeois capitalist is still a capitalist.
You:
- Locate your avatar in the top right of the screen and select “Settings”
- Select “Delete Account”
- Enter your password and select “Delete”
Lol you got me! I should stop using money in America because it’s bad. You are a revolutionary, the only person who hates the system we are in. The way you fix it by shit posting on lemmy, oh man class hero material. I bet you’ve volunteered in some way shape or form too make the world better. I should become a principled bad faith actor like you. How much you pay the cell phone over there mr marx lol. Or did you barter it up. What a joke. You are a little capitalist too you live disconnected from reality. You were in for a rude awakening when your mom kicks you out of the basement
How much you pay the cell phone over there mr marx lol. Or did you barter it up. What a joke. You are a little capitalist too
literally https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
So I can’t call out that somebody is participating in the system that they are judging others for participating in? Lol… I would have never guessed that everyone on memes was so sensitive. I bet nobody here ever compromised on their beliefs because they live in the real world. Y’all need to touch grass and stop skipping all your classes except philosophy ✌️
When you just discovered sarcasm
Someone is being a little sensitive today… What’s got you so touchy about the subject? You own a failing small business or something?
Lol it’s just a weird thing to get hung up on is all. Just because somebody supports a small business over a mega corp doesn’t mean they are thrilled with capitalism. Seems like a made up issue to talk about hating a system when there’s more than enough real or impactful issues, I didn’t mean to hurt so many feelings. I didn’t know groups of liberals talking about small business was affecting so many people in the country so deeply
Lol it’s just a weird thing to get hung up on is all. Just because somebody supports a small business over a mega corp doesn’t mean they are thrilled with capitalism.
No one but you suggested that was happening?
Seems like a made up issue to talk about hating a system when there’s more than enough real or impactful issues, I didn’t mean to hurt so many feelings.
Conservatives constantly use small businesses as a front to pass the fiscal policies that you are alluding to. I can’t even count the number of times a conservative politician has used the phrase “small businesses are the backbone of America”
Also, the only person who seems too emotional is you.
didn’t know groups of liberals talking about small business was affecting so many people in the country so deeply
Wut?
Not sure why you think I’m emotional, I expressed an opinion that’s different, that’s all. The meme was somebody being frustrated hearing liberals tell you to support small business. Idk, nobody tells me how to shop, I just called in to question how often the issue actually happened to the poster to make them post this. Not sure why you responded “wut” to me calling out the subject matter, or why you are suggesting nobody brought the matter up, it is the little caption on the meme. People are just in a rush to grab a pitchfork lol
Not sure why you think I’m emotional
Your very first comment to the post was just dripping with unwarranted condescension which is the hallmark of someone who is angry about something and spiteful towards the person they’re replying to. That is all very much emotional. And to be clear, it’s not “wrong” to be emotional, it’s often the appropriate response (though in your case, it was not). Own up to it.
I expressed an opinion that’s different, that’s all.
Oh that’s all? Just an opinion, really? You’re so clearly doing the “I’m not mad, I’m not mad! You’re the one whose mad!” thing and anyone reading this thread can see that, whether they agree with you or not. It’s not wrong to be upset about something, but come on and just own it instead of denying it and embarrassing yourself by pretending otherwise.
The meme was somebody being frustrated hearing liberals tell you to support small business. Idk, nobody tells me how to shop, I just called in to question how often the issue actually happened to the poster to make them post this.
This has nothing to do with anyone “telling you how to shop,” but that that’s where you immediately take it is very telling about your mindset. Do you have any idea what outsized role small business owners (aka petty bourgeoisie) have played in all historical and current fascist movements? Of course you don’t, or you wouldn’t have acted so personally aggrieved, thinking OP was criticizing your shopping habits (lol). Your snarky and sarcastic tantrum about OP’s completely justified seething at the well-known liberal tradition of idolizing some of the most objectively reactionary elements of society only goes to show how deeply ignorant you are about leftist theory and historical reality.
People are just in a rush to grab a pitchfork lol
“Could I be wrong? No, of course not! It’s just that everyone else is out to get me.”
Is this something I’m too European to understand?
USAmericans worship small business and small business owners
No the fuck they don’t. The small business owners they like are actually big businesses cosplaying as small businesses.
USAmericans are mostly uninformed and fascist. Death to America
Whoever you are listening to is not liberal if that’s what they say, troll
There are liberals right here in this thread defending the poor smol bean fascist small business owners, wtf are you on about? It’s one of their favorite things to do in defense of capitalism because they can pretend like exploitation only exists due to the imaginary “corporatism.”
why do you think I’m a troll? Have you ever had to deal with USAmericans and their obsession with small business owners?
I only shop Amazon and Walmart I hate small businesses Nazis bro.
Bud doesn’t know how small business owners treat their employees in the name of ‘family’ and ‘take a paycut so the local restaurant can survive’.