Since we have a lot of racist redditors coming over here catching bans for their historical ignorance about the June 4th incident, here are some resources:
- Notes for the 30th anniversary of the Tiannment incident.
- It wasn’t a massacre of peaceful students, but a skirmish between PLA soldiers and armed detachments from the pro-capitalist / free market reform movement. The protest movement, as evidenced by their own accounts, called for market liberalisation, and free market reforms, rallying around a replica of the statue of liberty. After the movement had been building in the square for seven weeks, unarmed soldiers were sent in to disperse the protesters, after which many soldiers were beaten to death, torched, and lynched. The New York Times death count went from 2600, to many thousands, to 8000, to tens of thousands. In reality only around ~200 (including soldiers) were killed or trampled, in smaller clashes outside the square. The on-scene New York Times reporter disavowed the article, especially about machine-gunning of protesters. A wikileaks cable from a US ambassador to the US state department, confirmed that no killings or machine-gunnings took place in the square.
- Latin American diplomat eyewitness account of June 3-4 events on Tiananmen Square wikileaks (PDF)
- There was a Spanish television crew that covered the entire Tiananmen Square incident as it unfolded. Their footage showed that there was no massacre. A few things worthy of pointing out - Liu Xiaobo and Hou Dejian, both student leaders of the Tiananmen protests, have been recorded as saying that they never saw anyone killed at the protests.
- The protest movement followed the line of “color revolutions”, in which the US tried to destabilize and create counter-revolutions in eastern Europe and Latin America after the fall of the USSR. The strategy was to stir division within and without, by inundating the media with news of massacres of “peaceful”, pro-capitalist / market reformers.
- The defeat of a counter revolution in China.
- Interviews from some of the student leaders.
- An account from a resident.
- Tiananmen Square “Massacre”, A Propaganda Hoax.
- The truth about the Tiananmen square protests
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degenerate
Hitler particles detected, .world status verified
You can literally watch the videos of both encounters
Only fash.world blindly repeats imperialist imperialist propaganda
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Damn dude being an anticommunist is so easy, you can just make shit up and as long as it FEELS right you can just say it with your whole chest, and proceed to ignore people who actually know what you’re talking about.
Fuckin sweet
Anyway, show me literally any evidence of a tank firing its weapons that day
I love whenever someone posts the “tank man” photo because the liberals always reveal themselves like roaches scattering across the room when a lightswitch is turned on. Mod ban hammer squish them all plz and thank you.
I love your portfolio.
Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. -Roderic Day
All the libs in the comments really living up to the quote.
The operative word being smug
Lemmitors really didn’t sent their best to this thread.
The Amerikkkan randomly calling me racist while being racist was fun if entirely unproductive. Same with the Canadian settler.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Seconding this, @QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml’s comments have been fantastic lately, and absolutely aren’t going to waste.
Thank you very glad to hear
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Thank you always great to hear.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Yeah definitely I always make sure to report any actual racism etc I see but it is fun to blow off steam arguing with/making fun of them at the same time even if it’s entirely unproductive.
Speaking from experience. Still be careful. Even when you think you are blowing off steam, more could be going on then you think. I didnt realize how miserable I had gotten till I had take some time away.
Arguing with randos on the internet can honestly really fuck with a person.
If it helps, it was fun to see you owning them
I just finished reading this article today a few hours ago! it felt like such an eerily perfect dissection of liberals it is incredible impressive, it doesn’t reduce their annoyance but it does provide an easier way to deal with it
Link?
My bad for not linking above, here it is: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels
Thanks I’m looking forward to reading later
No problem!
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Americans think they know about Tienanmen Square 1989 while themselves living in a police state / surveillance state.
No one talks about the Philadelphia police bombing (yes, a literal bombing) of a Black residential neighborhood in 1985.
No one talks about the police brutality against peaceful anti-Vietnam war groups in the 1960s/70s. Veterans who were drafted to fight an immoral war of aggression overseas were then beaten by the police for protesting that war. In 1970, the Ohio national guard opened fire on college students protesting at Kent State.
Eric Garner, Tamir Rice (12 years old), Daniel Shaver, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Renee Good, Alex Pretti and far, far too many people have been murdered on camera. Millions around the world protested the routine extrajudicial killings of unarmed Americans. But police killings increased every year during the Biden administration and Trump continues to throw people in the back of unmarked vans.
Americans judge the PRC (and every socialist country) by their own retelling of its worst blunder in history; Americans judge the US by it’s latest controversy while forgetting everything else.
I’ve not seen one mention of Tlatelolco massacre which was propped up by the CIA through the mexican goverment.
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Do you support the Jan 6 insurgency, yes or no?
I bet this logic trap goes hard if you’re a fucking moron. To spring it: No, I don’t support Jan 6 insurgents.
I am against any lethal action by governments towards their own citizens. And I don’t support murder or overthrowing governments by force either. So I don’t support insurgents trying to depose governments violently, and also I don’t support police killing people. The ideal situation would be to identify and arrest rioters. Which is, as it turned out, exactly what the US did until the new administration took over.
The idea that rioters attacking and beating people to death should be reasonably countered with expanding bullets, that poles and firebombs are reasonably opposed by rifles, frankly puts you in some sorry moral company. You should take a hard look at yourself if that’s the kind of behavior you condone from a government, under any circumstance. Professional soldiers and law enforcement don’t kill civilians.
Only a few hundred people died, not thousands. And some people may have been armed! So it’s fine to kill scores of people.
“Some people” aka insurrectionists were not maybe armed.
These insurrectionists bombed and killed soldiers. And THEY. BOMBED. FIRST.
There is no maybe in this scenario just as much as there is no maybe in the Jan 6th insurrection.
What were these other soldiers supposed to do that are trained to fight and protect their country?
Just stand there and take some more?
What is the proper response according to you when a group of terrorists bombs a military convoy?The tanks were driving away and didn’t kill anyone this time
They didn’t kill him because he posed no threat unlike the terrorists that bombed their convoy.
End of story.What were these other soldiers supposed to do that are trained to fight and protect their country? Just stand there and take some more? What is the proper response according to you when a group of terrorists bombs a military convoy?
You edited your post so I’ll reply again: The test, which America and China both repeatedly fail, is having professional law enforcement and soldiers kill their own citizens. This is one of the most utter, final failures of government. There are plenty of options besides killing people, and when you take up arms and swear oaths to protect your country, and then kill citizens of your own country, you break your oath.
Your argument fails because there’s no need to actually intercede and halt protests. In the case of the pro-democracy movement crushed by the PLA in June 1989, martial law and attacks on protesters had begun en masse 2 weeks before the massacre. There was a steady escalation of violence leading up to the riots in early june. So the idea that the protestors “struck first” (even if that is a justification, which it isn’t, is false. The facts, which aren’t in dispute, were that the anti-corruption policies implemented to answer the complaints of the protestors were well-received, and further reforms were desired by everyone, not just the student protestors. Everyone except the local officials who were at risk of losing their positions by a government overhaul from authoritarianism to democracy.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
- Through wiretaps and arrests
- Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks
- Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
Instead, even though 300,000 people were protesting that period, the actions of an interim commander who acted on poor discipline and leadership, directly lead to at least hundreds, and possibly thousands, of his own people, in a small section of the city. That is a spectacular failure, and the end of a certain degree of human autonomy in China.
This is coming from someone who actually thinks China is leading the world in many ways. I do genuinely believe that China is actually less corrupt than many other nations, and the high degree of social cohesion in-country is something that gives them strength. Like I said in my first post: lots to admire, but this ain’t it.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
Through wiretaps and arrests Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
A) There was no “massacre”
B) We have no idea if these tactics weren’t also used, and
C) Let’s be honest, if they had done these things and it had worked, you people would never shut the fuck up about that either.
This is just the other bullet points again! I’m sure if more armed rebels entered the capital it would have been incredibly messy and people would have died. And killing a ton of people, regardless of why, is a failure of government. Conflating one violent protest with another and then saying “America Bad so China Fine” is inane.
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tbf no one knows whatever happened to Tank Man it’s heavily censored
What is the bottom photo?
The lady who got shot in Minneapolis.
Renée Good was her name
Ok.
“Is an image of some tanks” is the heaviest lifting fucking sentence I’ve seen in a long ass time.
I gotta admit I chuckled a bit when I saw where this was posted…
Why?
I guess the downvotes know exactly why ^^
Well let’s say tanks are pictured…
There are 457 upvotes.and 93 downvotes at the time of writing. Tanks being pictured isn’t ironic at all, considering this meme is pro-China and anti-US.
Well it’s tankies vs nazis, both authoritarian. I don’t think there’s good guys pictured… Yet the side that drives war tanks are hinted to be good guys… And well we are on lemmy.ml
Liberalism, famously not “authoritarian” despite sending riot cops to beat down schoolkids for being against the Palestinian genocide the liberals are backing against the people’s will.
It’s good for workers to have state authority, rather than capitalists. Both have authority, but communists use it to uplift the people and defeat the Nazis.
Fucking lol
Any american will tell you our government is trash and oppressive. And yet when we point out that so is Chinas government you get pure unadulterated propaganda like this shit. And then call us brainwashed.
Lol
Remind me again about how installing suicide nets and making workers sign waivers saying if they kill themselves it isn’t the factories fault is “workers having state authority”
I bet I’ll just get banned though huh. A lot easier than actually using facts.
“My government is trash and oppressive yet I believe everything they say about the PRC”
We literally have the video of tankman climbing up the tank and not being flattened, it was even reported back in the day, but people downvoting you can’t be bothered to google that
There is video of him being removed/taken away by others. He certainly was not crushed.
Bro literally had a conversation with the soldier in the tank.
I think the downvotes are because the post implies that the Chinese did not kill anyone, when hundreds were murdered. What became of tank man is unknown, but it’s clear he wasn’t killed by one of those tanks.
I heard it was millions, and that evil communist xi xingping plans of doing it again and name it the scary communist leap forward after his favorite scary communist dictator mowz dong
It was thousands. Perhaps 10s of thousands. You don’t care, why comment?
And Iran, they killed 40 thousand!
why stop there? maybe they were hundreds of thousands, even millions!
Are you being sarcastic?
Because, and anyone correct me if I’m wrong,
most people here know that what happened during the Tianenmen square insurrection was:- Soldiers, mostly the army choir, are ordered to come unarmed and clear the square after months of students protesting in favor of Usonian state-backed exploitative economic teachings.
- 100+ Soldiers killed, mostly the army choir, by insurrectionists at a road adjacent to the square.
- Remaining army choir soldiers lead the protesters away through song from the square.
- 20+ Insurrectionists killed, as armed soldiers arrived and a battle broke out, on the same road.
- 100+ protesters killed, as a chaotic indirect consequence of the earlier insurrectionists’ actions, at a train station miles away.
- Tanks arrive at the square to prevent further escalation.
- Tanks leave the square as situation deescalated and tank man blocks the tanks for a while, then leaves, on the same road again.
These insurrectionists went a lot further than the Usonian Jan 6th protest mostly known as the “Freedom Plaza massacre” where “peaceful protesters” entered the capitol building in order to “stop election fraud” where “perhaps 10s of thousands civilian lives were killed as US security opened fire at these peaceful protesters”, because unlike CIA-backed insurrectionists, these “peaceful protesters” were ordered by their higher ups to leave immediately instead of being encouraged to block the US army from arriving at Capitol Hill or attack the US army for that matter.
I think the numbers are a bit off - official Chinese figures were ~20 student protestors, ~20 police and army, and about 200 other protestors were killed.
Do you have a source for your estimate of deaths? 100+ is very ambiguous since it includes any number >100, which seems already beyond contention.
Probably the official CPC figure of 241 killed in total. Most of the serious estimates broadly agree - NSA said 180-500, and the Tiananmen Mothers organisation have identified 198 of the dead.
Don’t you mean hundreds of thousands, you redfash tankie?