If you can’t swap the package manager it was never open.
Serious question: what’s to stop Google from just axing AOSP, and what would that mean for GraphenOS? As a company they seem to have become vindictive and I just feel like as soon as it becomes a big enough thorn in their side they will retaliate.
Does this remove apps already installled on my device?
The fucked up thing with phones is the locked boot loaders. Locked boot loaders should not exist because this seriously restricts the driver and OS development.
Well they are good for security, but they don’t have to be bad. Pixels are “locked” until you unlock it and install GrapheneOS and then re-lock it to prevent unauthorized access, that’s preferable to both “no lock” and “lock you don’t control” imo.
(This only applies to carrier unlocked pixels you buy elsewhere of course, if you buy it from a telcom company they lock it down, which is bad).
it was never your phone to begin with.
OUR phone
My latest phone is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS preinstalled, so it came degoogled and easily repairable out of the box. I intend to keep it for at least a decade. I cant imagine a feature I would be willing to upgrade for, so I’ll probably keep it longer than that.
the minute fair phone releases board schematics for the 6 I’ll buy one. they did it with the 5, id love for them to do it with the 6.
I wish i could trust the fairphone in the US but I think it only supports t mobile…I travel a lot and need solid connection in case I need lyft to work or something. And airline apps…
Hoping that Graphene Motorola partnership ends up making Graphene some really well supported target for bank/finance apps for those that make that a part of their required features for a phone. I can live with Firefox. Many seemingly can’t
Bring back RAZR days! I had so many razrs. Iove them
Vanadium on GrapheneOS will probably be what most people go with for website compatibility. Assuming they aren’t switching to GrapheneOS for the main aspects but just want to get away from google
Fuck this. My next device will be a Fairphone with Murena OS.
what’s that?
It’s a phone made by Fairphone that runs on Murena OS.
I know about Fairphone but haven’t heard of. MurenaOS
It’s an OS made by Murena
Or to give you a more serious answer, it’s also called /e/os. It’s a deGoogled Android distro you can get preinstalled on some phones, including the Fairphone 6.
Basically, it offers a way for less techy folks to switch to a Google free Android OS, as you don’t have to unlock bootloader, flash ROM, etc. Does cost an extra 50 euros for the privilege though.
MurenaOS is an operating system that can run on a Fairphone.
Tap for spoiler
I also had not heard of MurenaOS.
Buying a phone is not exactly a choice.
GrapheneOS would be great, if it would just support 1000x the hardware it does now. With the extremely limited hardware it does support it’s practically as good as useless for the vast majority of Android users
I’d switch tomorrow, would if I could
“Unfortunately” they prioritize security and no phones but Pixels and their upcoming Moto have all the necessary hardware.
If you don’t care as much about security however and just want to get away from google there’s plenty options, like LineageOS or /e/OS.
Personally I wanted both, so one day when it was time to switch phones I bought an unlocked Pixel instead of some Samsung with a fancy camera. Android users could all do that tbf, it’s not like phones last forever these days, the question is if they prioritize security and privacy or features (that will probably be different on GrapheneOS anyway, that fancy camera is only so fancy because of the onboard processing done by the phone, your pics won’t look as good on Graphene.)
Most hardware doesn’t support the fundamental security requirements of GrapheneOS, so that will never happen.
Look into things like /e/OS or Nothing Phone on the Android side, and the various Linux options (Jellyfish OS is, I think, the most advanced).
Please consider donating to PostmarketOS to build up a pure mobile Linux alternative that is completely free of Google’s influence. It’s the best option we have.
Really glad I decided to switch to GrapheneOS. My next phone will be a Motorola for sure.
motorola makes great phone. I remember my 1st Android phone, after years on iOS, was the Moto Z Play. That thing can last a week with light usage, or 3 days with medium usage on a single charge. Also remember those moto mods? Motorola had like speaker mod and even a mini projector that you can just snap on the phone.
They made better phones before Google bought them so they could strip all their patents before dumping the remaining husk on Lenovo for 15% of its previous value.
So what do we do when they start making it harder and harder to install graphene?
Getting a motorola cause they explicitly will be supporting GrapheneOS.
But all of that is just a stepping stone. As soon as I deem linux phones to be usable as a daily driver for me, I won’t look back.
We still don’t know anything about the phones’ specifications, prices.
Ironic that graphene is developed most for pixel phones
If the rest-of-the-world can get its head out of its ass, a fork of AOSP with an open governance and a commitment to opensource and open platform, so that every one benefits from it. You wouldn’t need that much from each country to get more resources on that AOSP-bis than Google will ever be able to pour on its homebrew version.
You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using AOSP-bis based systems (or even better: states choose their own AOSP distros) and quickly, Google has no choice but to follow your version, not the other way around.
You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using AOSP-bis based systems (or even better: states choose their own AOSP distros)
don’t give Google the monopoly
better: “You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using libre systems”
I would be so happy if the phone they release with graphene is the Razr, honestly might start work on it myself.
So, what’s the current status of GrapheneOS on a Pixel 10 pro? My Pixel 6 pro is no longer supported by GOS in October.
Edit: according to GOS’s site the Pixel 10 pro is fine. Maybe Motorola will release their phone by October.
Just make sure the case / screen protector options are decent, same with spare parts.
My P7P was an unfortunate purchase due to limited options, screen replacements for that device are still $300+ AUD for an original.
I’m just gonna switch to linux for my next phone. It’s past time.
I support spreading this message, and fuck Google, but…what’s actually happening is they are making harder to install apps, not removing the ability to do so.
After massive pushback. Their original plan was basically full control. It still is, but they’ll allow you to install something if you ask nicely first.
The other issue is the timing. They can claim this is for security all they want, but it was announced suspiciously close to the courts ruling that Google needed to open up their ecosystem to other app stores. This is a blatant attempt to keep control of the app ecosystem by forcing devs to go through Google regardless of where they intend to release.
Their original plan was basically full control
I’m not happy with the change, but let’s at least get the facts straight, so we can argue our position better. Their original plan included a way to install apps from unknown sources, but it did not describe how that would work.
I’m honestly neutral with the change, it makes setting up a new phone a little more annoying, it will just be another step in the process and doesn’t stop me from doing anything. However the small barrier will stop scammers pressuring people into installing things. It doesn’t make it impossible, but will get rid of a lot of the low hanging fruit.
Of course it did.
For two reasons.
First - if anyone complains they can always say there exists a bypass, no matter how idiotically unworkable and annoying the process might be.
Another aspect is that devs will probably want to test their apps easily and quickly - App stores are notorious for updates taking a few days to be approved. Even for Google, full-on lockdown might seem overkill. They don’t want to bother with speeding up their update approval process so devs can push test builds through the Ecosystem. Giving some route towards sideloading is a much saner solution.
I still say fuck them and push back and that total control is there end goal.
However. I agree with what they’re putting in place at this time. It’s a one time 24 hour hold before you can install apks from unknown places.
Unfortunately, a lot of people are pieces of shit, and I know for pretty much a fact that making this move will prevent old people from getting scammed. Especially for more targeted attacks where you can use ai to fake one of their relatives voices. It pumps a brake on scammers getting people to grant access while under a panic.
So if you’re tech savvy, you’ll just have to wait an extra 24 hours before you can start side loading after a phone reset or new phone purchase. Not a big deal if it keeps my pops from having his bank account drained. The guy got in a panic when his Facebook billiards game lost his score data. The guy would have left his phone with someone for a week if they told him they could have gotten it back.
Security should not control us, we should control security. In other words, this is not the right solution.
There’s a middle ground between complete disregard and complete lockdown. If you’ve got a better solution to scammers that isn’t going to drain your battery, invade your privacy, or hog up resources, I’m all ears. Grow up a little and maybe stop being so “me” centric.
This is clearly not designed to keep people secure. If it was, Google would not force you to make your device less secure to install apps of your choice.
Lol at what you call “proof”. Also, no one said you had to leave it enabled. Also, also, dev options is a security risk BECAUSE it allows for side loading. Hahaha
The only way it reduces security is by increasing the attack surface. There is no “now anybody can get root on your phone” vulnerability for enabling developer options, and if there were, Google would patch it. I always enable developer options as soon as I get a new device.
Because of this, the audit described in the “Other” link is deprecated.
I always enable developer options as soon as I get a new device.
That’s great for you, but you and I are not the targets that Google is supposedly trying to protect from supposed scams.
They can claim this is for security all they want, but it was announced suspiciously close to the courts ruling that Google needed to open up their ecosystem to other app stores.
The courts ruled that users need to be able to install competing app stores without any warning, which is different from how it works today. Obviously allowing installation without any warning would be a boon to malware authors, so they added a way for third party app developers (including app store app developers) to verify themselves and distribute apps outside the Play Store without a warning on installation. Now Epic can verify with Google and distribute its app on its own website without needing to tell the user how to dismiss a scary warning, and the same is true for Safeway and Proton and other developers that might want to self distribute. On top of that, now GrapheneOS can implement its own verification system using the same OS-level APIs. Maybe app authors can distribute apps themselves for users of GrapheneOS by registering their repo with a verification system that runs an automated security audit on the repo and ensures reproducible builds.
Now that there is a way to distribute apps safely outside the system app store, that probably prompted them to look at what was causing malware problems with the current unverified app installation flow, and they came up with that system. Saying it’s some massive conspiracy won’t force them to change their minds, especially since there aren’t enough users who care to make a dent in their revenue. Proposing a less onerous way to stop malware and bringing that in front of a judge on behalf of the app developers who are harmed will.
Google is “only” locking you out of using your phone for 24 hours…
For extra security, let’s make it a week. Let’s make it a month. Let’s make it a year.
It’s a holding period so a phone scammer can’t be on the phone with you or over a live chat having you enable and install what they want right away. You’re kind of an idiot if you can’t see that it would work. Cry me a river if you have to wait a day before installing some of your shit.
Cry me a river if you have to wait a day before installing some of your shit
wtf
Of course it wouldn’t work.
Do you think putting a 24 h lock on your grandma’s front door will prevent scammers from coming in?
No. No it won’t. Any good scammer will be organized enough to start the scam and release the lock, then return after the timeout to finosh the job.
Do you think people vulnerable to scams will magically notice the scam in 24 hours?
Also, do you think most scams use sideloaded apps? Amazon gift cards are an easier vector. There’s also premium SMS.
Modern scams have nothing to do with security. They prey on people who fall for them. No security measure, save for a trusted friend telling them it’s a scam will work.
What this is is a thinly-veiled attempt to lock users out of using their own devices and to strenghten a slowly-crumbling ecosystem.
Yes, I know it will help prevent it. I’ve seen it happen in real time. You have time to think if it sounds suspicious after you get off a phone. You have time to decide to call your bank and ask. A lot of times scammers will pretend it’s to help a family member in trouble and they need the money immediately, but now the person has time to call others in the family and discover it was all a lie.
You obviously don’t know how easy it is to pressure people in the moment, and how much harder it is to do after they aren’t under an instant time constraint. Hell, I used to work in sales and I’ve done it. People do illogical things when they’re caught up in the moment. I know 100% this will prevent some people from being scammed.
Ok? Its still my phone, my hardware, and now I have to wait 24 hours before I can install wahtever I want on the phone that I goddamn paid for with my own goddamn money.
Also, let’s not pretend as if they not eventually going to go back to their original plan once the initial backlash dies down and people get used to the new norm.
That’s what they’re doing *so far. * I very strongly doubt this is the last time the deal is altered.
For everyone unaware, enabling developer options already makes your OS less secure, so Google is requiring you to make yourself more vulnerable just to have the right to install any software, not just those allowed by Google. This has been among others confirmed by GrapheneOS themselves:
Thank you, ''preciate the links
Doesn’t the new process require the use of Google Play Services?
Removing it would thus render a device unable to install apps at all.
This is supposed to be a simplified message for tech illiterate people. While it may not be fully accurate, the alternative is something that <= 5% of the population will understand.
Additionally, as others have pointed out, this is how the change was originally planned. It was only adjusted due to massive backlash. Apparently the current backlash is not enough for Google to adjust it further.
A change I still wholly reject. Everyone should reject this change. No compromises.
And more correctly, harder to install apps the first time but easier than it is now to install apps in the future because that setting will now be copied to new phones instead of having to go through the flow again each time.
But I want to be angry!
This was their solution to the massive backlash after they announced removing it altogether. We’re still worse off, and we already know their intentions. They’ll revisit the attempt later on. You feel for their ratchet effect. Stop applauding
Who’s applauding? I’m not rooting for Google, but if you buy a stock Android device with the idea that Google is looking out for you, you’re an idiot. They have shown time and again that they are evil, but you buy a device and think, “Android is for digital outlaws, like me.” you’re delusional.
I use Android because the phones are dirt cheap. Most of these sort of phones are sold either at cost or at a loss, so it’s hard to complain.