I’ve been hearing about these for a few years now. Huge if they work out at a large scale.
Is this the next big thing? Na.
Maybe they will make a potassium battery, K?
Maybe, but I want to see Uranium batteries go mainstream, how 'bout U?
Id prefer francium batteries, fr
Or gallium hydride? GaH.
I was hoping science would’ve gotten us to a tri lanthanside by now https://youtu.be/D8fHatctfRo
Sodium-Ion is already in production at CATL. Been for about half a year if I recall. It’s slightly less dense than LFP but it’s cheaper and promises to get cheaper yet.
You’re right, they were making a pun about sodium’s chemical symbol.
Not who you replied to, but thanks for explaining! I saw the /j but still didn’t get it. I wasn’t a good chemistry student…
The advantage of Sodium -Ion is that it’s cheap, abundant, safe, and can cycle. It’s mainly used where large capacities are needed. So industrial, grid scale, stationary types of storage.
Sodium carbonate is less common than lithium carbonate, but requires less processing
but it’s cheaper
and way less dangerous.
And loads of charge cycles IIRC.
It’s significantly less dense.
It’s close enough to already be in use in some chinese cars. But definitely better for stationary use cases where density matters less.
It is considerably less dense. Those Chinese cars have only 20 kWh batteries
One Chinese car.
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Na.
Sodium, not natrium.
I have a surprise for you…
Sodium is just what those weirdos call Naatrium.
I’ve been doing some looking into sodium ion batteries for the last couple of months and it sounds like it’s going to drastically reduce the price of batteries and sodium ion is more thermally stable and can handle cold temperatures of negative 40 and can handle hot temperatures.
I’m also hearing charge cycle counts around 10,000, which would be something like 20 years worth of battery usage.
The current downside is power density and even that is not terrible as it’s pretty close to what LFP does now and They think they can improve it more in the future.
Sodium ion is already being used in some mass market cars that don’t need an incredible range, but need to be economical.
If it’s cheap and abundant enough you can have overcapacity and it easily lasts 30 years - which apparently is an important breakpoint for infrastructure project funding.
It’s the maintenance period on lots of infrastructure.
What it means isnthe private investors are more likely to bid to build power storage infrastructure for governments because it’s less likely they’ll ever have to change out the cells during the contract.
On the flip side, governments would kinda like them to work for 25 years so they’ll go 50 years without having to buy new cells.
Heck, if energy density is an issue the use this initially for grid storage, home solar, etc. where a larger size isn’t a huge deal. That would increase existing lithium ion supplies for EVs.
Any info about energy density?
According to Wikipedia:
Looks like power to weight it much higher, while energy per volume and energy per mass is comparable to existing lithium ion batteries.
No, the energy to volume is much less.
See, that’s what I thought, but the wiki article seems to disagree.
Or am I just misreading something?
I think they are testing Unigrid battery model 72173207 (terrible name). That is their 210Ah NCO prismatic cells.
I found this spec sheet. No definitive metrics, but someone else could do the napkin math.
72173207 (terrible name)
That’s my daughter’s name. It was my great grandmother’s name.
Sounds Arabic
We’re Episcopal Numerologists.
CATL’s that went into mass prod sometime ago are 175Wh/kg.
The 210Ah sodium-ion cells deliver up to 218Ah of discharge capacity.
WTF does that mean?
Either AI slop, someone fucked up the math for the capacity, or they’ve broken thermodynamics and are pulling power out of the ether.
First is most likely, 3rd is the coolest.
If only my other electronics operated at 104% efficiency.
It’s the world’s worst ZPM
Badly written, i suspect the cells are speecified to have about 210ah and a real test showed 218ah capacity. That would be pretty normal since you always have manufacturing tolerances. But i think in a good article they would have worded it better if thats the case since not all of these batterys will do 218ah.
Possibly the same as 1kg rice ±50g?
Wow, an actual innovation and not just growthfroth.
Yeah batteries have been one of the main areas where the real technological advances have been happening in the past decade. That and photovoltaics
Commercialize it? Oh this one could be real
Its already way past its “real” point. Just hasnt really made it to Europe fully. China is already mass producing them for everything.
Archive link: https://archive.ph/Xe3BU
https://interestingengineering.com/energy/unigrid-sodium-ion-battery-tech
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Reload to try again, or go back.
What is this shit? The page loads perfectly, then goes blank. They just fucking pretend to be broken because of some ad blocker or something. Why is the internet getting worse all the time. I don’t want you fucking layout, share buttons and other garbage.
I got the same error but hit reload and then it loaded fine.
Ah what the heck after the 5th time reloading it did work lol
Idk, sounds like a you problem fam.
Sorry for ranting lol. But it pisses me off especially when it comes from science news. Elsevier and sciencedirect is another service that blocks me, and I’m not even using a VPN or super secure browser.
Soon more and more webpages will only work with “authentic Chrome” or some shit, and block all VPNs. And then soon you’ll have to log into chrome. And that will create a permanent link with your government ID. I’m just tired of this predictable evil trajectory of technology. The internet was supposed to destroy tyranny, not join it!
I hear ya, it is fucking annoying.
Do you think this battery tech will be applied to portable power tools?
Nope. Too heavy for the power capacity.
Afaik they are mostly intended for large scale grid storage where weight doesn’t matter. Or even efficiency, you can just add more super cheap solar panels. Their biggest advantage is longer lifespan though that makes them viable as a infrastructure project. Price and longevity is really all that matters for grid storage.
So they are a bit heavier than lithium ion batteries but could still work for many applications. Could be great for a solar powered catamaran for example. They are I think safer too.
PS: Actually I was thinking off the “sodium iron pyrophosphate (NFPP)” battery from CATL (see this video), but I think they are comparable.