A human with the same permissions would have been capable of fucking up too. Giving the equivalent of a junior dev with a learning disability the keys to the whole place is just dumb.
(Relying on AI is dumb anyway, but that’s not the biggest issue in this specific case)
Giving the equivalent of a junior dev with a learning disability the keys to the whole place is just dumb.
Correct. You too have now identified the AI problem. This was the job of a human senior infrastructure engineer that they delegated to an AI agent. They’ve found out why it’s not an AI’s job.
I can’t read the original twitter link, but I’m not sure they handed it the job of a senior infrastructure engineer. The article says “routine”, which to me is something you can hand off to a junior just fine. When they hit a snag, they obviously should stop and ask what to do, but even then, a human might want to avoid admitting ignorance and try to fix it themselves instead. They shouldn’t have privileges to fuck up that badly.
So while it’s on the AI for taking destructive steps, I do think there’s a human error in the form of grossly irresponsible rights allotment. If this was a first-of-its-kind incident that shows otherwise stellar AI fucking up badly, I’d classify it as a pure AI problem, but their limits are hardly novel at this point. There have been previous incidents circulating the media. We’ve had memes about it. If you can’t stay up to date on your tools and their shortcomings, you shouldn’t be using them, because discovering a footgun becomes a question of “when”, not “if”.
That’s why I consider this partially a human failing: If you’re gonna use a tool, make sure that it operates within safe limits. The chainsaw doesn’t know the difference between tree and bone, so it’s on you to make sure it stays away from anyone’s legs. So while “Chainsaw can saw legs if wielded improperly” is a problem that was accepted as a tradeoff for its utility, you can’t really blame the chainsaw if you zip-tied the safety.
(Again, not to say Anthropic is blameless for letting its random generator generate randomly destructive shit. I just don’t think that’s the only point of failure here.)
That’s why I consider this partially a human failing: If you’re gonna use a tool, make sure that it operates within safe limits.
Yes and in this case using it for this job at all was clearly not within safe limits. You keep hammering on “It’s not the AI’s fault it was given a job with too big of a blast zone for it to safely do” after I’ve said “This type of job has too big a blast zone for an AI to safely do” and somehow you’ve convinced yourself that these are two different things.
Yes and in this case using it for this job at all was clearly not within safe limits.
Do you have any detail on what “this job” was? Like I said, I don’t have access to the original statement because twatter wants me to log in to see it.
What I do see is “routine task in the […] staging environment”, and that doesn’t sound like a big blast zone job. Again, it’s comparable to a job you’d give a junior engineer. There shouldn’t be much a junior engineer can fuck up, no matter how “creative” their solutions.
Whether it’s a human junior engineer, an automatic script or an agentic AI, they should never have more privileges than they need for their job. Granting someone or something that isn’t the senior admin permission to delete a volume is irresponsible.
The AI generating that fucking awful idea is on the AI (or its developers). Both are partial causes for the incident. It’s not just human error, but it’s also human error that would have been dangerous regardless of AI involvement.
Granting someone or something that isn’t the senior admin permission to delete a volume is irresponsible.
Correct. Like I said this was the job of a senior admin.
They gave the AI the job of managing IaC for their environment. Then were shocked when the AI managed the environment incorrectly. This is absolutely not something you let a junior engineer anywhere near.
You seem to be suggesting that the AI should be able to do the job they gave it without being given the permission required for it to do. The thing about doing things in IT, is you need to have permissions to do the things you’re asked to do. So you have to make sure the person you give permissions to is reliable and knows what they’re doing. The AI did not.
They gave the AI the job of managing IaC for their environment. Then were shocked when the AI managed the environment incorrectly. This is absolutely not something you let a junior engineer anywhere near.
See, this is the piece of information I was missing. When the article says “routine tasks”, I didn’t think it meant “manage environment”.
In that case, I agree that it is an issue of trusting AI with something that it shouldn’t have been.
You seem to be suggesting that the AI should be able to do the job they gave it without being given the permission required for it to do.
No, I was simply mistaken about the job it was given. Like I said, all I had to work with was the tomshardware article, which doesn’t go into much detail. I didn’t know that the “routine task in staging” required permission to delete entire cloud volumes across all environments instead of just specific environment-scoped project tokens.
Obviously, if it’s tasked with managing all project environments and given the access to do so, that’s a timebomb. In this case, it was, until it blew up.
The thing about doing things in IT, is you need to have permissions to do the things you’re asked to do.
The thing about conversations on the Internet is you need to actually read the whole comment and realise that there may be some misunderstanding if the other party says things like “I can’t read the twitter link” and assumes it’s a junior dev job when you know it’s not. Then you could just point out the part they didn’t know without being condescending and assuming a fundamental lack of understanding of how IT works.
I’ve had more than enough instances of troubleshooting just which scopes my access token needs to be intimately familiar with the way permissions work. I personally tend to request the least amount required for a given task and only expand when needed and reasonable. It is my understanding that this is the best practice. It was my assumption that they had assigned permissions their agent didn’t need, because you generally don’t hand out “fuck up my prod system” rights.
No, I was simply mistaken about the job it was given. Like I said, all I had to work with was the tomshardware article, which doesn’t go into much detail.
The article goes into full detail. All of this information was in the article.
Seems to be, yes. The AI had the access it needed to do the job it was given, and that access allowed it to cause the problem.
The alternative that would have prevented this issue was to not use AI for this.
A human with the same permissions would have been capable of fucking up too. Giving the equivalent of a junior dev with a learning disability the keys to the whole place is just dumb.
(Relying on AI is dumb anyway, but that’s not the biggest issue in this specific case)
Correct. You too have now identified the AI problem. This was the job of a human senior infrastructure engineer that they delegated to an AI agent. They’ve found out why it’s not an AI’s job.
I can’t read the original twitter link, but I’m not sure they handed it the job of a senior infrastructure engineer. The article says “routine”, which to me is something you can hand off to a junior just fine. When they hit a snag, they obviously should stop and ask what to do, but even then, a human might want to avoid admitting ignorance and try to fix it themselves instead. They shouldn’t have privileges to fuck up that badly.
So while it’s on the AI for taking destructive steps, I do think there’s a human error in the form of grossly irresponsible rights allotment. If this was a first-of-its-kind incident that shows otherwise stellar AI fucking up badly, I’d classify it as a pure AI problem, but their limits are hardly novel at this point. There have been previous incidents circulating the media. We’ve had memes about it. If you can’t stay up to date on your tools and their shortcomings, you shouldn’t be using them, because discovering a footgun becomes a question of “when”, not “if”.
That’s why I consider this partially a human failing: If you’re gonna use a tool, make sure that it operates within safe limits. The chainsaw doesn’t know the difference between tree and bone, so it’s on you to make sure it stays away from anyone’s legs. So while “Chainsaw can saw legs if wielded improperly” is a problem that was accepted as a tradeoff for its utility, you can’t really blame the chainsaw if you zip-tied the safety.
(Again, not to say Anthropic is blameless for letting its random generator generate randomly destructive shit. I just don’t think that’s the only point of failure here.)
Yes and in this case using it for this job at all was clearly not within safe limits. You keep hammering on “It’s not the AI’s fault it was given a job with too big of a blast zone for it to safely do” after I’ve said “This type of job has too big a blast zone for an AI to safely do” and somehow you’ve convinced yourself that these are two different things.
Do you have any detail on what “this job” was? Like I said, I don’t have access to the original statement because twatter wants me to log in to see it.
What I do see is “routine task in the […] staging environment”, and that doesn’t sound like a big blast zone job. Again, it’s comparable to a job you’d give a junior engineer. There shouldn’t be much a junior engineer can fuck up, no matter how “creative” their solutions.
Whether it’s a human junior engineer, an automatic script or an agentic AI, they should never have more privileges than they need for their job. Granting someone or something that isn’t the senior admin permission to delete a volume is irresponsible.
The AI generating that fucking awful idea is on the AI (or its developers). Both are partial causes for the incident. It’s not just human error, but it’s also human error that would have been dangerous regardless of AI involvement.
Correct. Like I said this was the job of a senior admin.
They gave the AI the job of managing IaC for their environment. Then were shocked when the AI managed the environment incorrectly. This is absolutely not something you let a junior engineer anywhere near.
You seem to be suggesting that the AI should be able to do the job they gave it without being given the permission required for it to do. The thing about doing things in IT, is you need to have permissions to do the things you’re asked to do. So you have to make sure the person you give permissions to is reliable and knows what they’re doing. The AI did not.
See, this is the piece of information I was missing. When the article says “routine tasks”, I didn’t think it meant “manage environment”.
In that case, I agree that it is an issue of trusting AI with something that it shouldn’t have been.
No, I was simply mistaken about the job it was given. Like I said, all I had to work with was the tomshardware article, which doesn’t go into much detail. I didn’t know that the “routine task in staging” required permission to delete entire cloud volumes across all environments instead of just specific environment-scoped project tokens.
Obviously, if it’s tasked with managing all project environments and given the access to do so, that’s a timebomb. In this case, it was, until it blew up.
The thing about conversations on the Internet is you need to actually read the whole comment and realise that there may be some misunderstanding if the other party says things like “I can’t read the twitter link” and assumes it’s a junior dev job when you know it’s not. Then you could just point out the part they didn’t know without being condescending and assuming a fundamental lack of understanding of how IT works.
I’ve had more than enough instances of troubleshooting just which scopes my access token needs to be intimately familiar with the way permissions work. I personally tend to request the least amount required for a given task and only expand when needed and reasonable. It is my understanding that this is the best practice. It was my assumption that they had assigned permissions their agent didn’t need, because you generally don’t hand out “fuck up my prod system” rights.
The article goes into full detail. All of this information was in the article.