Do you not think that a hypothetical state without Capitalism could also generate an automated surveillance state? It feels to me to be less tied to the market system and more to authoritarianism. I would simply point to the fact that many European nations under socialism did have very strong secret police spying on the public under the pretext of protection from counter-revolution, which is not really any different to the countries under capitalism today, minus the technology.
The European nations seem to all be capitalist from what I can see over here in North America. They do have much more in the way of civic investment and social programs than some other capitalist nations, like the USA, but those things are not socialism. I believe right-wing propaganda opposed to those programs and investments has worked hard to tie them and the “socialism” boogieman together, but they’re not. Socialism and capitalism are economic systems; all that other stuff is policy that is not economic.
Ooh, that is a different matter entirely. We’ve managed to be fortunate to be spared a lot of those historic hard times, though we seem to be leading the charge towards some brand new hard times lately.
Do you not think that a hypothetical state without Capitalism could also generate an automated surveillance state? It feels to me to be less tied to the market system and more to authoritarianism. I would simply point to the fact that many European nations under socialism did have very strong secret police spying on the public under the pretext of protection from counter-revolution, which is not really any different to the countries under capitalism today, minus the technology.
The European nations seem to all be capitalist from what I can see over here in North America. They do have much more in the way of civic investment and social programs than some other capitalist nations, like the USA, but those things are not socialism. I believe right-wing propaganda opposed to those programs and investments has worked hard to tie them and the “socialism” boogieman together, but they’re not. Socialism and capitalism are economic systems; all that other stuff is policy that is not economic.
When I spoke about European countries under socialism I meant East Germany (Stasi), USSR (KGB), Czechoslovakia (StB), Hungary (AVH), etc.
None of these countries were capitalist at the time and maintained gigantic security services to spy on the entire population.
Ooh, that is a different matter entirely. We’ve managed to be fortunate to be spared a lot of those historic hard times, though we seem to be leading the charge towards some brand new hard times lately.